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Author Topic:   Kansas State School Board At It Once Again
paisano
Member (Idle past 6423 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 96 of 136 (209874)
05-19-2005 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by EZscience
05-19-2005 10:06 PM


Re: True Colours revealed indeed
Why it is, in the USA, we seem to have such a paucity of students *interested* in a science education ? I mean, forget about students that excel in science (we certainly do have some of those), but the majority of American students with opportunity for higher education seem to choose a course of study other than science. Why ?
One has to ask, if you perceive the number of American born students in science as "low", is this in absolute or relative terms ? Relative to 1950's America, say? Or relative to other countries ?
Here are a few reasons I can think of:
1) Other closely related fields (e.g engineering, computing, medicine) are perceived as more lucrative or interesting.
2) Academia is perceived as an unattractive career choice (low pay and benefits, revolving series of one year postdocs, excessive politics)
3) Students who might be interested in science are turned off at the secondary level due to the way science is taught. It seems to be perceived , especially in the physical sciences, as something only for the elite students.
On the Kansas topic, I have to wonder if the mainstream science community tactic of largely avoiding the hearings was the best choice. Surely it was largely a kangaroo court, but this tactic could still be perceived as a retreat by the general public. If the state attempts to force ID to be taught, would en masse resignations of Kansas bio teachers, or en masse refusal to comply, be the response ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by EZscience, posted 05-19-2005 10:06 PM EZscience has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Mammuthus, posted 05-20-2005 4:06 AM paisano has not replied
 Message 100 by EZscience, posted 05-20-2005 6:58 AM paisano has replied

  
paisano
Member (Idle past 6423 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 101 of 136 (209939)
05-20-2005 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by EZscience
05-20-2005 6:58 AM


Re: Lack of American interest in / respect for the sciences
American students have so much economic opportunity, a science career is probably perceived as way too much work for way too little return on investment.
I think this is by far the largest factor. And many students choose nontechnical careers, which I really don't see as a problem per se.
As to the culture, I can't be quite so negative as Holmes, although the "inventor-entrepeneur" (Edison, Ford, Gates, Rutan) seems to capture the public imagination as the archetypal American technologist much more than the science professor.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by EZscience, posted 05-20-2005 6:58 AM EZscience has not replied

Replies to this message:
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paisano
Member (Idle past 6423 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 102 of 136 (209940)
05-20-2005 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 99 by Silent H
05-20-2005 4:41 AM


Re: True Colours revealed indeed
Sometimes discretion is the better part of valour. This might be one, even if discretion is often mistaken as cowardice. Challenging them to a fair fight will reveal where the cowardice lies.
A tactical withdrawal is never cowardice, but sound strategy.
If the Kansas state board forces the teaching of ID, I would love to see every biology teacher in the state resign en masse. Sort of "OK, if you don't want biology taught in this state, we are ready to accomodate you". Of course, this may not be prqactical. I'd expect some sort of refusal to teach the syllabus/firing/court fight scenario to play out. Sort of Scopes II.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Silent H, posted 05-20-2005 4:41 AM Silent H has replied

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paisano
Member (Idle past 6423 days)
Posts: 459
From: USA
Joined: 05-07-2004


Message 110 of 136 (210184)
05-21-2005 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by EZscience
05-20-2005 9:30 PM


Re: Post-docs as academic gypsies
And this from a committed career scientist. Politicians please take note.
I'd probably second Mammuthus' recommendation, at least for academia.
(I left academia right after the Ph.D.)
I am not sure how much politicians directly have to do with the perpetuation of the postdoc system. It seems academia itself must share some blame for this, but will perpetuate they system as long as willing victims...er, candidates... are available. If those are foreign born, no matter. It's in the ecoonomic interests of the powers that be (tenured faculty).
What's the latest from the Kansas board anyway ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by EZscience, posted 05-20-2005 9:30 PM EZscience has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by AdminNosy, posted 05-21-2005 11:25 AM paisano has not replied
 Message 119 by Silent H, posted 05-23-2005 4:59 AM paisano has not replied

  
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