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Author Topic:   dinosaur and human co-existence
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17815
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 91 of 271 (559571)
05-10-2010 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 11:00 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
quote:
Now you're getting picky-uny. Relative to most animals, they are close to the ground and likely more time than most passes on the belly.
The point remains that there are lizards with legs easily long enough to fit what little is implied in the story, and since lizards are more closely related to snakes they fit the story better than any dinosaur.
quote:
Now, you're treading water and consuming my valuable time. I've covered this repeatedly, that other aspects of physiology would become necessary adaptations for a different environ.
No, you're simply ignoring the point that you are responding to. The POINT is that the curse included a transformation of the affected creature. Thus if the full curse was extended we should NOT expect to see any significant coexistence of dinosaurs and snakes. That is why you have to make up the idea that only part of the curse was extended, stretching the story even further.
And of course what you say is merely a wild guess unsupported by any evidence whatsoever. Why should the environment require snakes to be more like lizards than dinosaurs or crocodiles ?
quote:
How about your source for this? Show and tell time.
Of course Buz, I already did that. It's in Message 51 And I will add that it was quite widely reported at the time, so I can find plenty more sources for that story.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 11:00 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2688 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(2)
Message 92 of 271 (559602)
05-10-2010 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Buzsaw
05-09-2010 12:04 AM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Hi, Buzsaw.
Nobody responded to an obvious point here, probably because there were too many obvious points to respond to, and nobody thought it was that important, but I still feel like this needs to be said:
Buzsaw writes:
Your problem remains: why did the alleged Ice Age allegedly render exclusively the dinos extinct, leaving the other co-existing reptiles alive and well to flourish and survive. That is your position. No?
The dinosaurs did not go extinct in an ice age. The Ice Ages were something that happened within the past 2 to 3 million years, and the most recent one ended just at the edge of recorded human history.
The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, more than 60 million years before the Ice Ages. They were killed in some sort of catastrophic event, most commonly attributed to an asteroid collision.
I didn't want you to go away from this thinking our ignoring this issue meant we believed that dinosaurs were killed in the Ice Age.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 05-09-2010 12:04 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:12 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

  
IchiBan
Member (Idle past 4928 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 93 of 271 (559625)
05-10-2010 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Huntard
05-09-2010 2:15 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
The ToE is the best explanation for all the evidence we see, Buz. How many times do we have to tell you this?
Okay so it boils down to that you say it is so so it is so? Because thats what it looks like here.
Edited by Admin, : Fix quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Huntard, posted 05-09-2010 2:15 PM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 94 of 271 (559636)
05-10-2010 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by Blue Jay
05-10-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Bluejay writes:
The dinosaurs did not go extinct in an ice age. The Ice Ages were something that happened within the past 2 to 3 million years, and the most recent one ended just at the edge of recorded human history.
The dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago, more than 60 million years before the Ice Ages. They were killed in some sort of catastrophic event, most commonly attributed to an asteroid collision.
Thanks, Bluejay for explaining this. However the problem for the evolutionist explanation remains, why was the catastrophy exclusive to the dinosaurs while the co-existing belly crawling and short legged reptiles survived and thrived?
The Genesis explanation for that remains the only sensible explanation for that so far as I'm aware.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by Blue Jay, posted 05-10-2010 3:32 PM Blue Jay has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Asgara, posted 05-10-2010 9:37 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 97 by DrJones*, posted 05-10-2010 9:47 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 05-11-2010 1:53 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Asgara
Member (Idle past 2293 days)
Posts: 1783
From: Wisconsin, USA
Joined: 05-10-2003


Message 95 of 271 (559638)
05-10-2010 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 9:12 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Buz, I believe what they are trying to tell you is not all dinosaurs died and not all lizards survived.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:12 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:51 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 96 of 271 (559639)
05-10-2010 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Percy
05-10-2010 11:22 AM


Re: Real World Evidence Of Curse
Percy writes:
Clarifying once again, "real world evidence" means evidence from the real world, like the evidence for fossils is real world evidence. What is your real world evidence that there is such a thing as "the curse?"
The real world evidence is the same evidence that evolutionists use. It is the observable fact that the dinos became extinct. The difference is that little is said by evolutionists as to why the whatever catastropy which allegedly wiped out the dinos left the short legged and belly crawling ones surviving and thriving. In this whole thread, none of my counterparts have come up with anything significant in response to my repeated appeals for a viable explanation. Therefore, I am claiming that this is real world evidence (not claiming proof, but supportive evidence) of the curse as depicted in the Genesis record which is the premise for my thesis.
Creationists usually use the same real world evidence as evolutionists. It's all in how that evidence is interpreted. That's what the EvC debates are about, as I understand it; so that different PoVs can be aired and may the truth prevail in the end, that all may benefit, including the guests.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Percy, posted 05-10-2010 11:22 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by DrJones*, posted 05-10-2010 9:49 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 101 by Iblis, posted 05-10-2010 9:59 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 109 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-11-2010 3:46 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 111 by Percy, posted 05-11-2010 7:39 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2283
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 97 of 271 (559640)
05-10-2010 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 9:12 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
why was the catastrophy exclusive to the dinosaurs while the co-existing belly crawling and short legged reptiles survived and thrived?
It wasn't exclusive to the dinosaurs, to insist it was would be lying.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2283
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 98 of 271 (559641)
05-10-2010 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 9:46 PM


Re: Real World Evidence Of Curse
The difference is that little is said by evolutionists as to why the whatever catastropy which allegedly wiped out the dinos left the short legged and belly crawling ones surviving and thriving
As the enviroment changed the species that were better suited to surive, did and the ones who weren't, didn't.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:46 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:55 PM DrJones* has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 99 of 271 (559643)
05-10-2010 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Asgara
05-10-2010 9:37 PM


Re: Reptiles and Dinosaurs
Asgara writes:
Buz, I believe what they are trying to tell you is not all dinosaurs died and not all lizards survived.
Hi Asgara. Can we agree then, that by and large the dino typs became extinct and by and large the shorties and belly types survived and thrived?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Asgara, posted 05-10-2010 9:37 PM Asgara has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 100 of 271 (559644)
05-10-2010 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by DrJones*
05-10-2010 9:49 PM


Re: Real World Evidence Of Curse
Dr Jones writes:
As the enviroment changed the species that were better suited to surive, did and the ones who weren't, didn't.
This doesn't sound like catastrophy (Astroid?) to me, Doc. I'm referring to the alleged zapper that essentially zapped the dinos and left the others essentially alive and well.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by DrJones*, posted 05-10-2010 9:49 PM DrJones* has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by DrJones*, posted 05-10-2010 10:02 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 108 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-11-2010 3:32 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Iblis
Member (Idle past 3886 days)
Posts: 663
Joined: 11-17-2005


(1)
Message 101 of 271 (559646)
05-10-2010 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 9:46 PM


Re: Real World Evidence Of Curse
The difference is that little is said by evolutionists as to why the whatever catastropy which allegedly wiped out the dinos left the short legged and belly crawling ones surviving and thriving.
Mass extinctions are almost universally measured in terms of size, body mass. K-T killed everything over about 55 pounds. Yes, there were dinosaurs under 55 pounds; we call them "birds" now.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/...saurs/glossary/K-T.shtml
See, if you and your family, can't fit under, a rock or something, it's Revelation 6:16 for you ...
Since there is no evidence that late Maastrichtian nonavian dinosaurs could burrow, swim or dive, they were unable to shelter themselves from the worst parts of any environmental stress that occurred at the K—T boundary. It is possible that small dinosaurs (other than birds) did survive, but they would have been deprived of food as both herbivorous dinosaurs would have found plant material scarce, and carnivores would have quickly found prey to be in short supply.
Cretaceous—Paleogene extinction event - Wikipedia

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:46 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2283
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 102 of 271 (559647)
05-10-2010 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 9:55 PM


Re: Real World Evidence Of Curse
I'm referring to the alleged zapper that essentially zapped the dinos and left the others essentially alive and well.
I must point out again that the dinos didn't go extinct exclusivly, vast numbers of species disappeared. And saying they were "zapped" doesn't accuratly describe their extinction, it wasn't an instantaneous event. The asteroid strike that is thought to have caused the die off would have created a world-wide nuclear winter effect, in other words a world-wide change in the enviroment. The species that were able to survive the enviroment change escaped extinction and those that couldn't hack it, died. Natural selection in action.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 9:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 271 (559651)
05-10-2010 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Hyroglyphx
05-10-2010 11:06 AM


Re: Evidence Of Curse
Hyroglyphx writes:
Percy is saying that there is no evidence that one day *poof* their legs fell off and now they're snakes, with or without fossils. There is only evidence of different kinds of reptiles and sauropods.
I've explained that. The real world evidenced fact remains that by and large, the dinos were not around 4300 or so years ago and the shorties and belly crawlers were alive and well.
As I have explained repeatedly, the parent cursed dinos would not have been zapped, but their egg genes were altered so that the hatched offspring became the shorty type reptiles. All remaining parents were gone with the flood is the implication.
Hyroglypx writes:
Aside from which there is no morphological similarity between a snake and various reptiles. You couldn't just rip the legs off of a reptile and suddenly it would resemble a snake.
Have you been reading and clicking on my cited evidence? I've covered this which explains your problem.
Why is that? Is this a tacit way of saying that people who don't see things your way are under the wiles of some kind of demonic deception?
It was Satan who allegedly deceived the woman via the reptile.
And yet Genesis is completely silent on the issue. One would think that if monstrous beasts roamed with man, the author would have chronicled it. The only mention of anything remotely relating to what could be construed as a Sauropod is in the book of Job, long after the dino's would have been dead according to The Flood theory.
There was only 8 people allegedly surviving the flood. The only record would be in the fossils etc.
Then of course the physical evidence doesn't stand up to scrutiny, as dinosaur remains are found much, much lower in the strata layers than humans. Then there is the radiometric dating disparity. No doubt you will argue that C14 dating is inaccurate, so I'm not sure we'll ever get anywhere in the debate. The point is that there is a mountain of evidence that contradicts the human/dinosaur connection. What, if not the obvious, will lend credence to notion that they didn't coexist?
I've explained that humans were able to survive the longer than the dinos, being intelligent so likely the dinos and humans would likely not be found together after the alleged flood. You're right. If there was a flood and a different earrth surface topography and atmosphere the pre-flood element makeup would have been such that radiometric dating would be skewed, Imo.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-10-2010 11:06 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by bluescat48, posted 05-10-2010 10:48 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 112 by Blue Jay, posted 05-11-2010 10:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4180 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 104 of 271 (559652)
05-10-2010 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Buzsaw
05-10-2010 10:21 PM


Re: Evidence Of Curse
You're right. If there was a flood and a different earrth surface topography and atmosphere the pre-flood element makeup would have been such that radiometric dating would be skewed, Imo.
That would have no effect on radioactive decay. Elements decay the same on earth, the moon, the sun and anyplace else in the universe. There is no physical means to change decay rates other than changing the isotopes which would only occur by a continuous neutron beam hitting all the atoms of a particular isotope changing into another isotope. Never happens or happened.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 10:21 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Buzsaw, posted 05-10-2010 11:58 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 271 (559659)
05-10-2010 11:58 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by bluescat48
05-10-2010 10:48 PM


Re: Evidence Of Curse
bluescat writes:
That would have no effect on radioactive decay
I didn't say rate of decay. I said element makeup.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Guess.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by bluescat48, posted 05-10-2010 10:48 PM bluescat48 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-11-2010 12:13 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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