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Author Topic:   Is creationism winning in Turkey & Korea?
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 77 (10456)
05-28-2002 4:47 AM


Creationism is really an American phenomena, it spreads like McDonald's around the world. While Europe ignores it, it seems that in Asia it would gain a stronghold.

Turkish creationist personality Harun Yahya with his 'Science Research Foundation' has a strong network, backed by the network of Muslim organizations locally and internationally. They have been around for some time, and while creationism faces tough scientific infrastructure in the US, it certainly doesn't in Turkey or other Islamic countries. Therefore it may become bigger there. Take Indonesia for instance. After an Islamic publisher published Harun Yahya's 'Evolution Deceit', the atmosphere of creationism starts to build, and young Muslim activists are ready to confront local evolutionists (which are few here--too many laypeople) and hardly a month pass without another of Yahya's books turning up in bookstores.

Does anybody keep an eye over the non-Christian creationists such as Harun Yahya? From what I read, it seems that Pakistan is also getting into it, and also other countries.

Have they succeeded in putting creationism in class in Turkey? (I suspect they haven't; the secular goverment is still strong)

There is also the Korean creationists, however. I am not familiar with them (anybody got clue?) however their presence marks the far-reaching effect of creationism. (Maybe they are members of that Korean church, what do you call it,...)


Replies to this message:
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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 2441 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 2 of 77 (10565)
05-29-2002 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
05-28-2002 4:47 AM


Do you have any idea why "europe" is 'ignorant' of what you wrote? My take has been clouded by US law relative to the grounding of morals and I am unable to understand why duty has not called on say Brits to recognize that their use and large control of the dissemination of information in equations tended becasue they were so calculated to have not had the word's time that say some one who writes a script with more marks above the letter would tend to appreciated in a network ed world that was here the difference of formal and emprical psychology that having read it that was all that was accepted to be known short of silence.?? any idea in this line or should I begin to show how heteronomy is confused in the drug industry with heterogenous equilibria. GOuld's death prove what I Observed on campus that no one had been able to even talk let alone write about popularly multi-peak equilbrium attractor orbits that are only trajectories and do not need to follow in a line betWEEn the Sun and Earth.##
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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 3490 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 3 of 77 (290062)
02-24-2006 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brad McFall
05-29-2002 11:52 AM


all over the world
Yes, Creastion clubs have been established in every country. Institute of Creation Research delegates the faculty to establish seminars in other countries ( Russia, France, Germany,China, Japan etc) to bring in all the scientists together. It is wrong to state that creationism is only in the USA. I heard that in India, this creation movement is growing among scientists. Wherever there are christians, Creationism is also there.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dan Carroll 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1975 days)
Posts: 2904
From: Chicago, IL, USA
Joined: 04-04-2003


(1)
Message 4 of 77 (290066)
02-24-2006 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by inkorrekt
02-24-2006 11:34 AM


Re: all over the world
Wherever there are christians, Creationism is also there.

And yet strangely enough, the idea has never come up solely due to scientific research.

Go figure.


"We had survived to turn on the History Channel
And ask our esteemed panel, Why are we alive? And here's how they replied:
You're what happens when two substances collide
And by all accounts you really should have died."
-Andrew Bird
This message is a reply to:
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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1503 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 5 of 77 (290067)
02-24-2006 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
05-28-2002 4:47 AM


Maybe they are members of that Korean church, what do you call it,...

Do you mean the Unification Church or 'Moonies'? They certainly are strongly creationist, Jonathan Wells says his motivation for his writing against evolution was inspired by his membership of this church.

TTFN,

WK


This message is a reply to:
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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 2441 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 6 of 77 (290276)
02-25-2006 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by inkorrekt
02-24-2006 11:34 AM


all over the world; not in my Church
I am not going to muddy up this thread as I had a clear idea of where I was going when I asked this question to AndyP. I was working on a response to mental “disorder” issue and believe you me both the ‘ED’ and the question of British use of equations (Russell, Fisher etc still comes up) I am linking a pre-draft onto the thread about me
www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=366&m=280#280 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=366&m=280#280">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=14&t=366&m=280#280
just so you know I am not ignoring you. Most recently I have corresponded with ICR about “organized complexity” when it came up in a thread here on EVC, about the time Modulous started posting, and I do know about ICR abroad. Here in the US I was dismayed last Sunday when my church had an adult education session on ID and they failed to even reach this level of understanding we already have on EVC, that ID might be but it needs to present more evidence and this from a Church with members lacking in response, including elders, being profs of history, biology, physics, and chemical engineering at Cornell.

Where this link and not this thread is headed is toward showing were design of subtraction of rational representations from light in flame spectra of fundamental series made of electrons and photons offers a pallete for design in science not before used. If god is already using it, all the better. But I need to work on the specific versimultudes of variance biometry first, which is why the post is not ready for an ordered belief post. That’s the best I have in reply through Dan’s clever cleever.

This message has been edited by Brad McFall, 02-25-2006 08:27 AM


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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 77 (290278)
02-25-2006 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dan Carroll
02-24-2006 11:42 AM


Re: all over the world
DCA writes:

And yet strangely enough, the idea has never come up solely due to scientific research.

Go figure.

Imo, not strange, since most creationism's premise is the Bible, that credible book full of fulfilled prophecy and social goodies that bolster it's credibility. Imo, if the origins are flawed so should the prophecies be proven to be bogus.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW
This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3018
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 8 of 77 (290280)
02-25-2006 9:03 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Wounded King
02-24-2006 11:52 AM


It is more than that. Sun Yen Moon paid for Johnanthan Wells education so he could critize evolution. He got educated for that express purpose, rather than come to that conclusion after his degrees.
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crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 77 (290302)
02-25-2006 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
02-25-2006 8:47 AM


Re: all over the world
Imo, not strange, since most creationism's premise is the Bible

You don't find it significant that there isn't a single creationist who was first convinced of the scientific merit of creationism and then became a Christian, rather than the other way around?


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inkorrekt
Member (Idle past 3490 days)
Posts: 382
From: Westminster,CO, USA
Joined: 02-04-2006


Message 10 of 77 (292556)
03-05-2006 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Dan Carroll
02-24-2006 11:42 AM


Re: all over the world

For example: Tenure is denied to creationists in academics. Any paper submitted will be discarded not on Scientific merits, but simply because they question Evolution. This is fundamentally based on the assumption that Evolution is very well established. How? When? and Where? No one is willing to answer. Well, you know verywell that in Science foxes are guarding the chicken houses. How can the chicken roost? Finally, the chicken are blamed for everything.

This message has been edited by AdminJar, 03-05-2006 10:24 PM


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nator
Member (Idle past 2051 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 11 of 77 (292676)
03-06-2006 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by inkorrekt
03-05-2006 11:10 PM


money and mouth
quote:
For example: Tenure is denied to creationists in academics. Any paper submitted will be discarded not on Scientific merits, but simply because they question Evolution. This is fundamentally based on the assumption that Evolution is very well established. How? When? and Where? No one is willing to answer. Well, you know verywell that in Science foxes are guarding the chicken houses. How can the chicken roost? Finally, the chicken are blamed for everything.

inkorrekt, are you willing to participate in a thread that will allow you to provide evidence to support what you have claimed above?

I will start one if you are.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by inkorrekt, posted 03-05-2006 11:10 PM inkorrekt has not yet responded

    
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 12 of 77 (306594)
04-25-2006 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Andya Primanda
05-28-2002 4:47 AM


Creationism is really an American phenomena, it spreads like McDonald's around the world. While Europe ignores it, it seems that in Asia it would gain a stronghold.
Turkish creationist personality Harun Yahya with his 'Science Research Foundation' has a strong network, backed by the network of
quote:
Muslim organizations locally and internationally. They have been around for some time, and while creationism faces tough scientific infrastructure in the US, it certainly doesn't in Turkey or other Islamic countries. Therefore it may become bigger there. Take Indonesia for instance. After an Islamic publisher published Harun Yahya's 'Evolution Deceit', the atmosphere of creationism starts to build, and young Muslim activists are ready to confront local evolutionists (which are few here--too many laypeople) and hardly a month pass without another of Yahya's books turning up in bookstores.

Excellent. I don't think it is science that these people have to worry about. It is a system of belief and anti beliefs wrapped in science in some countries.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Andya Primanda, posted 05-28-2002 4:47 AM Andya Primanda has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by RAZD, posted 04-25-2006 9:57 PM simple has responded

  
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 13 of 77 (306595)
04-25-2006 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Buzsaw
02-25-2006 8:47 AM


Re: all over the world
quote:
Imo, not strange, since most creationism's premise is the Bible, that credible book full of fulfilled prophecy and social goodies that bolster it's credibility. Imo, if the origins are flawed so should the prophecies be proven to be bogus.

True. But they do not call such solid evidence science. It isn't in with the scientific in crowd's deciding what is knowledge, and science and what is not.


This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 18455
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 14 of 77 (306597)
04-25-2006 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by simple
04-25-2006 9:43 PM


I don't think it is science that these people have to worry about.

Unless one is worried about increasing knowledge.

It is a system of belief and anti beliefs wrapped in science in some countries.

Can you tell me how "anti beliefs" are different from normal beliefs?

Welcome to the fray.


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 Message 12 by simple, posted 04-25-2006 9:43 PM simple has responded

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simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 15 of 77 (306625)
04-26-2006 3:06 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by RAZD
04-25-2006 9:57 PM


quote:
Unless one is worried about increasing knowledge.

Science increases certain knowledge, not all.

quote:
Can you tell me how "anti beliefs" are different from normal beliefs?

Welcome to the fray.


Thank you. Normal beliefs come in many flavors. One of them is science. At least some parts of science. What is allowed and acceptable in some countries as "science" seems to be an anti God flavored concoction. If Turkey or other places were less restrictive, all the better.


This message is a reply to:
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