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Author Topic:   The Academic Bill of Rights
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 91 of 178 (215983)
06-10-2005 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Chiroptera
06-10-2005 5:19 PM


The question for the conservatives who brought this point up is: why is it inappropriate to ask that specific question in a classroom if it is germane to the content of the course?
If I may jump in to defend them; I'm pretty sure they would tell you that it would be perfectly appropriate, if Bush's war criminality had not yet been factually established, to propose the question as a hypothetical. Which I agree with.
Whether or not it was appropriate for a professor to pose the question from a basis of fact would depend on the extent to which that characterization had been factually defended during class. I too would fault the professor for busting that question out absent any preamble prior to the test; just like I would fault a professor for testing anything not covered or assigned in class.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Chiroptera, posted 06-10-2005 5:19 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 92 of 178 (215990)
06-10-2005 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by nator
06-10-2005 11:14 AM


Re: here is what the AAUP thinks about the bill
You are right I was in a rush and didn't take the time to read it completely and am not taking the time to read it now although I may eventually. But I'm sure you posted it without reading through the arguments on my side of this too.
The point is that all the objections that are being posted here are treated as if nobody ever thought of them before, but when they are checked out it turns out they have reasonable answers, in fact have been answered many times over. The Academic Bill of Rights has been in the works for years now and has received tons of complaints that have been answered at length by David Horowitz and Sara Dogan and other representatives of the ABOR.
Without reading through the evidence on the ABOR side of this everybody here just keeps throwing up uninformed objection after objection. I understand that the sites that have been linked have a LOT of information on them and it is hard to sort through it all. NEVERTHELESS this automatic unthinking assumption that objections would not have been considered and answered in all that material is nothing but a reflection of the anti-conservative paranoia and prejudices that the bill is designed to address.
See my Message 93 for Horowitz's answer to the AAUP.
This message has been edited by Faith, 06-10-2005 07:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by nator, posted 06-10-2005 11:14 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by nator, posted 06-11-2005 9:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 93 of 178 (215992)
06-10-2005 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Jazzns
06-10-2005 11:29 AM


Re: Do something about it/ AAUP
Horowitz answers AAUP:
Larkinhas writtena 3,500 word attack on me on the California AAUP website called What's Not To Like About the Academic Bill of Rights. Not a word of this diatribe mentions an actual statement from the Academic Bill of Rights.Instead it is an attack on me personally and on imaginary demands of the academic freedom movement for "balance" and equal representation (there are no such demands). Larkin evenclaims that the academic freedom movement is proposing an affirmative action program for conservatives that would force him to hire his ideological enemies. This is alsopure invention. The AcademicBill of Rights specifically forbids hiring faculty on the basis of political viewpoint. How does one deal with dishonesty at this level?
How indeed??
Inside Every Progressive Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out - David Horowitz
And answers and answers:
Search Front Page Magazine for AAUP
You call the following hyperbolic typical leftie-style rabble-rousing "logic and scholarship"? You think the fallacy of poisoning the well with language such as "extremist agenda" "assault on higher learning" and other Leftist Activist Incitement Language is reasonable discourse?
While our public school are being attacked in Kansas and Dover our universities are being undermined by people with an extremist agenda. Those of your who are involved in this debate to help protect primary education also should be concerned about this blatant assault on higher learning and the educations we have recieved for which we place so much value.
Send emails and letters to representative. Give monetary support to these orginizations already entrenched in the battle for our freedom. Get involved in your government and make a change! Empower yourself and take responsibility for the direction of our beloved country goes!
The TRUE battle for TRUE freedom in this country is AGAINST this kind of mindless Sixties-style New Lefty activist agitation.
This message has been edited by Faith, 06-10-2005 06:53 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Jazzns, posted 06-10-2005 11:29 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:01 PM Faith has replied
 Message 96 by jar, posted 06-10-2005 7:34 PM Faith has replied
 Message 137 by Jazzns, posted 06-11-2005 2:55 PM Faith has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 94 of 178 (215995)
06-10-2005 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
06-10-2005 6:50 PM


Re: Do something about it/ AAUP
But that's the thing. Yours is an extremist agenda.
Look if there were merit to the conservative position, it would be held by professors. They're not hiring liberals. They're hiring experts in their fields, and those tend to be liberals, because, quite frankly, liberals just tend to be plain smarter and better than conservatives. Conservativism today is an anti-intellectual movement of selfishness, so its only natural that our best and brightest are so liberal.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 6:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 7:26 PM crashfrog has replied
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 06-10-2005 7:39 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 95 of 178 (215999)
06-10-2005 7:26 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
06-10-2005 7:01 PM


Lovers of lies and hatred all of you
You've sure swallowed the party line.
You are the anti-intellectual kneejerk mindless accuser of people who has no respect for anything decent, you and most others here. Anyone who can say that it could possibly be objective fact that Bush is a war criminal has no respect for true intellect, for clear thought, no respect for the majority of decent Americans who voted for him, no respect for human beings, period, no respect for truth, for reason, for reality, no mind, no heart, no human decency. No respect for the American values of tolerance and giving the benefit of the doubt and treating your opponent with respect. No respect for American freedoms. The Leftist propaganda juggernaut is destroying everything true and good in this country and you and most others here are just riding along on it, blindly, unthinkingly, having NO idea of the true source of its evil anti-American smear campaign, while a very few of us have the guts to look it in the face and call it what it is. It's insanity, it's lies, it's evil. Get an education in what matters.
If I get suspended for this, it was well worth it.
This message has been edited by Faith, 06-10-2005 07:35 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:01 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by CK, posted 06-10-2005 7:38 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 100 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:39 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 117 by nator, posted 06-11-2005 9:26 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 96 of 178 (216001)
06-10-2005 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by Faith
06-10-2005 6:50 PM


public school are being attacked
You wouldn't say that public schools are under attack in Kansas? How else can you describe the efforts to keep children in ignorance by including nonsense like creationism or ID in the curiculum?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 6:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 7:38 PM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 97 of 178 (216002)
06-10-2005 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by jar
06-10-2005 7:34 PM


Re: public school are being attacked
Listen I've opposed the creationist attempt to get into the public schools. I think it's a lost cause and only creates conflict. I think Christians should LEAVE the public schools, period.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by jar, posted 06-10-2005 7:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 104 by jar, posted 06-10-2005 7:58 PM Faith has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 98 of 178 (216003)
06-10-2005 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
06-10-2005 7:26 PM


Re: Lovers of lies and hatred all of you
Lovers of lies - would seem to suggest that we must all be liers. But I guess that Faith's free pass to say what she likes comes into play.
Tell you what why don't I give Admin something to do.
Add by edit: There are no double standards, Charles.
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 06-10-2005 05:41 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 7:26 PM Faith has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 99 of 178 (216004)
06-10-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by crashfrog
06-10-2005 7:01 PM


Re: Do something about it/ AAUP
I say that many leftists are idealists. They dare believe in the human potential to build a brave new world of peace. Most conservatives are realists. Granted, they are selfish and misuse Christian values to justify their position. They know that a world of compromise may be peace, yet it will be as it was with Neville Chamberlain...a weak peace in our time with diminishing American power.
Liberals and Conservatives need to come to an agreement in order for the direction of the country to be secure. It just so happens that Bush was the compromise last time...We traded morality for security.
To the liberals: Would you rather sacrifice American security and economic clout in the interests of human morality? If so, you may have a good heart but you had best be prepared for the consequences.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 06-10-2005 05:39 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:01 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:41 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 118 by nator, posted 06-11-2005 9:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 100 of 178 (216005)
06-10-2005 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by Faith
06-10-2005 7:26 PM


Look, I'm Faith! You're a stoopid poo-poo head! No YOU are!
I realize that this is the best you have to offer, Faith. Couldn't you at least try to rebut my arguments instead of acting like a baby? Please? It would mean a lot to me.
Oh, by the way - if we're going to let Faith do whatever she wants around here, why don't we add that into the forum guidelines? That would at least make it less surprising for the new people when Faith flies off the handle and the admins do nothing.
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-10-2005 07:43 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 7:26 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 06-10-2005 7:43 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 101 of 178 (216006)
06-10-2005 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Phat
06-10-2005 7:39 PM


Would you rather sacrifice American security and economic clout in the interests of human morality?
The conservatives would have us sacrifice morality and freedom, and receive nothing in return. What does that accomplish?
We traded morality for security.
No, we didn't. We traded morality for nothing. We're not more secure; we're demonstratably less so. What on Earth does that accomplish?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Phat, posted 06-10-2005 7:39 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 102 of 178 (216007)
06-10-2005 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by crashfrog
06-10-2005 7:39 PM


Lets all cool off.
You are right, Crashfrog. I think that this topic needs a day to cool off, however!
Jar? Help!
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 06-10-2005 05:44 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:39 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by crashfrog, posted 06-10-2005 7:45 PM Phat has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1466 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 103 of 178 (216008)
06-10-2005 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Phat
06-10-2005 7:43 PM


Re: Lets all cool off.
Re-evaluate what?
Faith's tantrum means we all have to sit in the corner? We're calm and collected. She's the one that can't take the heat.
God, could anything be more humiliating than group punishment? I thought I was done with that when I left middle school.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Phat, posted 06-10-2005 7:43 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 104 of 178 (216009)
06-10-2005 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Faith
06-10-2005 7:38 PM


Re: public school are being attacked
That does not answer the question.
Are you saying that it's okay to keep Christian children ignorant?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Faith, posted 06-10-2005 7:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
CanadianSteve
Member (Idle past 6472 days)
Posts: 756
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 06-06-2005


Message 105 of 178 (216034)
06-10-2005 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by MangyTiger
06-10-2005 1:03 AM


Re: Ridicule and Marks
http://www.studentsforacademicfreedom.org/...
This link, in turn, links to many articles on the story:
Sucuri WebSite Firewall - Access Denied
This message has been edited by Admin, 06-11-2005 07:52 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by MangyTiger, posted 06-10-2005 1:03 AM MangyTiger has not replied

  
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