Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,477 Year: 3,734/9,624 Month: 605/974 Week: 218/276 Day: 58/34 Hour: 1/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Wanted: German Material On The Matter!!!
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 22 (21965)
11-09-2002 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by McDozer
11-08-2002 10:32 PM


If you formerly have 'faith' in evolution, then you have indeed been mislead. Whoever that taught evolution as a kind of faith should be banned. Evolution is science, not some religion!
Anyway, when you were told (by whoever) that evolution is false, what evidence does he/she give you to convince you that evolution is false? I must admit that I am curious about how you came to that conclusion, if you don't know AiG/ICR/Harun Yahya/etc. (Maybe it's a case of convergence in science )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by McDozer, posted 11-08-2002 10:32 PM McDozer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by McDozer, posted 11-09-2002 8:19 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

McDozer
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 22 (21966)
11-09-2002 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Andya Primanda
11-09-2002 7:55 AM


I don't agree with you, as far as the "faith" aspect goes, for I do believe that you gotta have some pretty crazy faith to believe that everything came from nothing by itsself (unless you've been indoctrinated with that faith from birth, like most of us have & thus it's really hard to swallow that you've been reared on a lie), BUT,
as I'm finding out that folks get offended sometimes, I will change my statement by saying that my "scientific" viewpoint of sympathising with Darwinists was replaced by those of Creationists. For sufficient evidence I can only point one to James Perloff's book "Tornado in a Junkyard", which quotes both, evolutionists & creationists & explains the latest findings on the matter... as far as non-scholars go.
If you don't have it, I can "lend" it to you via email.
Gosh, I though this was a Site of Creationists, but I must have got something wrong there...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-09-2002 7:55 AM Andya Primanda has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by John, posted 11-09-2002 10:29 AM McDozer has not replied
 Message 19 by Quetzal, posted 11-11-2002 3:24 AM McDozer has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 22 (21973)
11-09-2002 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by McDozer
11-09-2002 8:19 AM


quote:
Originally posted by McDozer:
I don't agree with you, as far as the "faith" aspect goes, for I do believe that you gotta have some pretty crazy faith to believe that everything came from nothing by itsself
And this is different from believing that everything was made be God who came from nothing all by himself? All you've done is add a layer and call it a solution. This is the extra entity we were discussing elsewhere.
As for faith, scientists take whatever information we've got and try to determine how the world works. How is this like faith? Faith is the belief in things for which there is no evidence-- admittedly, my definition.
quote:
unless you've been indoctrinated with that faith from birth, like most of us have & thus it's really hard to swallow that you've been reared on a lie
I was raised Southern Baptist and indoctrinated with vey fundie principals. Yeah, it was hard to swallow that I was reared on a lie.
------------------
http://www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by McDozer, posted 11-09-2002 8:19 AM McDozer has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 19 of 22 (22171)
11-11-2002 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by McDozer
11-09-2002 8:19 AM


Hi McDozer: I think you might find it more comfortable on this board. Those folks are speaking your language, (err, or at least English). "Helen" is their resident "scientist" - she's absolutely right there with you. There are a lot of other posters who are completely on your side (most of 'em are YECs). The board has a very restrictive posting policy - probably three quarters of the people here on , for example, wouldn't be allowed to register or post there - so you won't have to worry about defending your positions. There's very little dissenting and/or scientific viewpoint presented. Enjoy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by McDozer, posted 11-09-2002 8:19 AM McDozer has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6497 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 20 of 22 (22177)
11-11-2002 5:12 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by McDozer
11-08-2002 10:08 PM


Hi McDozer
Dear Tranquility Base, (remember, just a dumb musician, no scholar...)
thanks a lot for the information. Please accept my apologies if I should have offended you, I just wasn't ready for an "attack" from this side.
M: The site is a debating forum for evolution versus creationism...most of us are here explicitly to argue.
To explain: I'm currently collecting info material on what you may call the "New World Order Conspiracy", & was just experiencing similar clashes with "defenders of the dark side", so to speak, especially on a German group. To settle the "mothership" issue once & for all: I'm German myself, so regards to your granny. I was a missionary abroad for 11 years 1980 - 91 & have experienced that Germans per se are generally a little more difficult to take (myself included) than some other nationalities & you might say even developed a dislike towards the hostile attitude of some. Personally, I still don't see the point in your friend's initial reply to my plea for help, as it was rather discouraging.
M: Out of pure curiosity, could you share why you find Germans in particular hard to take as opposed to other nationalities? As a clarification, I am not German. I am American but live in Germany.
I find Germany rather comfortable as the average citizen is better educated than in the US and for the most part, the fundamentalists are a minority.
McDozer:
Being entirely new to this site, though, I want to apologise & would just wish that only people would respond to posts if they have anything positive to contribute, instead of trying to hinder & discourage others. Maybe my initial choice of words was exaggerated & may have caused offense. I mean, I'm trying to get material in German to reveal information to them which at this point is not accessible.
M: You will have to live with the fact that many people will disagree with you. It is not really an issue of offense. If you tell me that I have to believe in a mythological god/supreme being/whatever because you are convinced that it exists, don't expect me to agree with you or to willingly comply. Others will also feel the same way. If you are confident in your beliefs, it should not matter what I or others beleive.
McDozer:
It's not the people I antagonize but the mental conditioning they (we) have been subjected to. many people don't realise this, but I personally believe that there are forces behind this misinformation.
M: Funny, I feel exactly the same way about fundamentalists...but I think most people realize that there is a fundamentalist agenda of disinformation and oppression....they usually do not disguise the fact.
McDozer:
So, in hopes of a more peaceful future colaboration... and in the light of "Mammuthus" being your friend, apologies to him, as well, yours sincerely, McDozer
M: No need to apologize to me. As I see that Quetzal has directed you perhaps to a site more in line with what you were expecting (or looking for) and I would encourage you to visit it...but I would also encourage you to stick around here and engage in some of the other forums. You will get a lot of different points of view (from creationists and evolutionists) on many subjects and will see a lot of heated arguments. You will probably find that the debates and the topics are more interesting and varied than you might have imagined.
cheers,
Mammuthus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by McDozer, posted 11-08-2002 10:08 PM McDozer has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by McDozer, posted 11-12-2002 7:46 PM Mammuthus has replied

McDozer
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 22 (22398)
11-12-2002 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Mammuthus
11-11-2002 5:12 AM


Well, I obviously didn't really have a clue... in fact I'm pretty new to this whole "forum" thing in general. I personally don't like to spend a lot of time arguing on topics...
I do want to thank all those of you, though, who pointed me to different sites where I found some German material on the subject. It doesn't equal James Perloff's book in clarity & amount of quality info given in the least possible amount of words. but at least I now know that there is such a thing as a creationst movement in Germany, although it can't really be compared to its US counterpart, which they themselves admit. If anyone really wants to know about "the other side", though, I'll have future references to refer them to.
Thanks for that! Maybe I'll peak in here from time to time, when I've got some extra time to rap away... If anyone here should be interested in a WORD copy of the above mentioned book (excellent!) feel free to contact me... God bless y'all, Dave (McDozer)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Mammuthus, posted 11-11-2002 5:12 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Mammuthus, posted 11-13-2002 4:36 AM McDozer has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6497 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 22 of 22 (22445)
11-13-2002 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by McDozer
11-12-2002 7:46 PM


Hi McDozer,
As I said, I think you might find the debates here interesting and encourage you to stick around. Not just because you will see what evolutionists have to say but you will also see what different creationists have to say.
Auf Wiedersehen
Mammuthus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by McDozer, posted 11-12-2002 7:46 PM McDozer has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024