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Author Topic:   Destruction of Pompei is 1631 year.
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 121 of 132 (479092)
08-24-2008 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by elcano
08-24-2008 2:16 PM


Re: data of eruption
You really believe that there are any sources confirming destruction of Pompey in 1631.

Is there any legitimate reason, whatsoever, to think that Pliny the Younger or Tacitus were somehow lying? Because they did write about it. And if they did write about it, but lied, what did it serve? Why would some hoax be perpetrated? What would be gained by doing so?

Secondly, look at the garb worn by the people entombed in the calcified ash. They are wearing 1st century Roman clothing, which looks nothing like what was worn in the 1600's. The pictographs on the wall represent 1st century Roman clothing as well, not knights in chainmail armor, or Renaissance era attire. The radiometric dating of the materials found indicate 1st century time frame.

The better question to you, is: Do you really believe that 117 years after this epic disaster, people somehow forgot about it, and then rediscovered it? The date you give is almost 100 years after Da Vinci and Michaelangelo! Yet no one from history even eludes to the date you give.

This is fantasy. The eruption of Pompeii may not have been exactly 79 AD. But there is no way any credible historian would honestly believe that it took place in 1631 AD.

Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : typo


“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by elcano, posted 08-24-2008 2:16 PM elcano has responded

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Percy
Member
Posts: 15494
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 122 of 132 (479098)
08-24-2008 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by elcano
08-24-2008 2:16 PM


Re: data of eruption
elcano writes:

You really believe that there are any sources confirming destruction of Pompey in 1631.

Did you forget that it is you arguing for the 1631 date? :D

All I was doing in my Message 119 was pointing out that the source you cited in support of a 1631 AD date actually contradicts your position, stating unequivocally that the date was 79 AD.

--Percy


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Coyote
Member
Posts: 5541
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 123 of 132 (479102)
08-24-2008 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by elcano
08-24-2008 2:16 PM


Re: date of eruption
From this website, which provides a lot of detail on the AD 79 eruption:

    Until the 1980's it had generally been assumed that Monte Somma was prehistoric and that the 79 eruption, though tragic for the unfortunates buried in Pompeii, and for Pliny the Elder, who died while investigating the disaster, was otherwise fairly routine. That all changed in the 1980's when excavations in Herculaneum found hundreds of skeletons of people killed by the eruption, and improved understanding of pyroclastic flows led to better recognition of them.

    It now appears that the eruption was a lot more disastrous than once believed and that both Pompeii and Herculaneum were buried by pyroclastic flows. The drop in pressure in the magma chamber allowed the summit to cave in to create Monte Somma, and the present cone of Vesuvius is the result of eruptions since 79. The few Roman depictions of Vesuvius on wall murals all show the volcano as a single cone with no hint of Monte Somma. In addition, medieval and Renaissance depictions of eruptions invariably show the summit of Vesuvius below the summit of Monte Somma instead of substantially above it as it is today.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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anglagard
Member (Idle past 51 days)
Posts: 2157
From: Big Spring, TX, USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 124 of 132 (479108)
08-24-2008 5:05 PM


A Two for One Conspiracy
My daughter and I saw Lucy at the Houston Museum of Natural Science the same day as we later saw the Pompeii exhibit at the Houston Museum of Fine Arts. Now the Pompeii exhibit was pushing that 79 AD eruption with all these artifacts including many body casts, that filled at least three large rooms.

Amazing, the city of Houston must be such a real hotbed of fakery that it must take thousands of people to create this matrix-like artificial reality. And what is even more amazing (considering how military secrets leak out so soon) is that of everyone in on the conspiracy, not one has gone to the press, or even the tabloids or Fox News, with the 'real truth.'


Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon

The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5512
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


Message 125 of 132 (479110)
08-24-2008 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by anglagard
08-24-2008 5:05 PM


Okham's Razor slices through
Amazing, the city of Houston must be such a real hotbed of fakery that it must take thousands of people to create this matrix-like artificial reality. And what is even more amazing (considering how military secrets leak out so soon) is that of everyone in on the conspiracy, not one has gone to the press, or even the tabloids or Fox News, with the 'real truth.'

Yeah, that's pretty much how they work. :)

There must be something very alluring to conspiracy theorists that they insist on having the skinny on "secret" information. Meanwhile we're all just dumb and unsuspecting sheep bleating away, while the hidden truth is beyond our grasp or comprehension.

Edited by Nemesis Juggernaut, : Edit to fix typo


“Tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito"
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elcano
Member (Idle past 1604 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 126 of 132 (479205)
08-25-2008 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Hyroglyphx
08-24-2008 2:40 PM


Re: data of eruption
I think that Pliny the Younger has described real eruption of Vesuvius (or Etna), but this eruption has no communication with eruption destroyed Pompeii and Herculaneum. However there are following facts.
Epitaffio from Torre dell Greco

Engraving from the book - MASCULI I. B. (1633) - De incendio Vesuvii excitato XVlI kal Ianuarii anno trigesimo primo saeculi decimiseptimi, Roncaglido, Napoli. (see Message 118)

From these facts follows that in 17 century there were any cities with the name Pompeii and Herculaneum and these cities have been destroyed on December, 16th, 1631.

If it will be interesting to you, I will try to translate into English some more the facts in support of the version.
Interesting photos from Pompey are here http://kasparovchess.crestbook.com/viewtopic.php?id=2770&p=4


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 5541
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 127 of 132 (479213)
08-25-2008 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by elcano
08-25-2008 12:07 PM


Re: date of eruption
Do you have any comment on my post #123, above? Particularly the medieval drawings showing the mountain in the post-eruption state?

How about the information in the website I linked to?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by elcano, posted 08-25-2008 12:07 PM elcano has responded

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elcano
Member (Idle past 1604 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 128 of 132 (479223)
08-25-2008 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Coyote
08-25-2008 12:37 PM


Re: date of eruption
There is here such picture probably showing a real cone of Vesuvius in 1631.

It is visible here that top Somme above (or it is equal) tops of Vesuvius.

See also in 1514.


Click to enlarge

Edited by Admin, : Reduce image size.


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elcano
Member (Idle past 1604 days)
Posts: 60
From: Moscow
Joined: 01-12-2007


Message 129 of 132 (479234)
08-25-2008 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Hyroglyphx
08-24-2008 2:40 PM


Re: data of eruption
quote:
Nemesis Juggernaut
The better question to you, is: Do you really believe that 117 years after this epic disaster, people somehow forgot about it, and then rediscovered it?

How you think, when people have recollected, what channel Sarno has constructed Domeniko Fountana in 1600?
If they assumed in 1817 that it has been constructed in 15 century.

quote:
Aggiungasi, che Niccola di Alagni padre della famosa Lucrezia di Alagni creato dal re Alfonso I conte di Sarno fece scavare un acquidotto, che dove attraversare tutta la piñata di Pompei per trasportarsi l` acqua sino alla Torre.
Viaggio a Pompei a Pesto e di ritorno ad Ercolano ed a Pozzuoli
By Domenico Romanelli
Published by , 1817, Napoli

This message is a reply to:
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realist21
Junior Member (Idle past 2240 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 11-09-2010


Message 130 of 132 (590600)
11-09-2010 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminAsgara
01-13-2007 6:40 PM


Carbon Dating
This is an approach Ive never heard before. It is widely acknowledged that Vesuvius destroyed Pompeii in 79 AD. Your conspiracy theory is amazing because somehow the people hiding the facts about the real date found a way to get the entire tree ring history from Europe, Japan and South America to go along with their ruse. Even if Pliny the Younger did not record the event, Carbon 14 dating on bread and Argon / Argon dating on ejected lava date the catastrophe to the late first century.

Carbon 14 and Argon / Argon dating are in no way calibrated by dates in history books. They are anchored in the repeatable laws of nature. Carbon 14 date calibration is firmly anchored to indisputable tree ring and coral layer evidence. For a complete understanding of how Carbon 14 calibration works try taking a look at the Fairbanks Radio Carbon Calibration web site. The address is attached. http://radiocarbon.ldeo.columbia.edu/...arch/radiocarbon.htm

You can also look up INTCAL 2009. This is the current gold standard in R14 calibration.


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Coyote
Member
Posts: 5541
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 131 of 132 (590603)
11-09-2010 1:05 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by realist21
11-09-2010 12:48 AM


Re: Carbon Dating
Welcome! It is good to have another poster who is familiar with radiocarbon dating.

Correcting the errors that show up in sites like this is a never-ending task.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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DM613 
Suspended Junior Member (Idle past 1995 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 07-10-2011


Message 132 of 132 (623603)
07-11-2011 9:18 PM


hi,do you know me?I think you must have never know me,I am new here,you will be familiar with me in the future,please remmember me,I am dmjy510,a special name and it is easy to keep it in mind.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Off-topic banner.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Hide content.


    
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