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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
starman
Inactive Member


Message 586 of 1498 (823036)
11-05-2017 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 582 by Coyote
11-05-2017 10:20 AM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Whatever there was or was not need not concern you since you don't know. You try to limit the future and past to the mere constraints of the current world. How drool.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 582 by Coyote, posted 11-05-2017 10:20 AM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by ringo, posted 11-05-2017 1:45 PM starman has replied
 Message 592 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:54 PM starman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 587 of 1498 (823037)
11-05-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by starman
11-05-2017 1:42 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
starman writes:
You try to limit the future and past to the mere constraints of the current world.
What else do you use?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:42 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:52 PM ringo has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 588 of 1498 (823039)
11-05-2017 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 584 by starman
11-05-2017 1:35 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
You know that it is that way NOW! In the far past, say in the bristle-cone pines, if there were some visibly different rings, we would not know what caused them today!
We know that the pattern of the widths is very consistent showing consistent growth with modern days.
There are no significantly visibly different rings that what is observed from normal climate variations. Not in either of the two Bristlecone Pine chronologies nor in the two European Oak chronologies.
Making up fantasy is not an argument, it is fantasy. Fantasies don't explain correlations -- such as the correlations of rings with carbon-14 content in the rings across all four chronologies. Which continues with the lake and maring varves.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 584 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:35 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:53 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 589 of 1498 (823041)
11-05-2017 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 585 by starman
11-05-2017 1:36 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Naturally ice layers would have also been different. Your correlations are flawed and all based on the present nature!
What is your evidence? Do you know the detail of evidence of annual layers in the ice cores?
Assertion and opinion have shown remarkably little success in changing reality.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 585 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:36 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 593 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:54 PM RAZD has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 590 of 1498 (823042)
11-05-2017 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by ringo
11-05-2017 1:45 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Ha. Why use anything unless you know? Why use a same state past, or the tooth fairy to tell us what the unknown was like? Just admit ignorance.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by ringo, posted 11-05-2017 1:45 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by ringo, posted 11-05-2017 1:59 PM starman has replied
 Message 599 by JonF, posted 11-05-2017 2:57 PM starman has not replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 591 of 1498 (823043)
11-05-2017 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 588 by RAZD
11-05-2017 1:47 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
I seem to remember you could not even so much as produce a good pic of the inner tree rings for the bristlecone despite, if I recall having a family member in the field? Ha. Now you want to tell us that it all looks alike?

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 588 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:47 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 596 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 2:06 PM starman has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 592 of 1498 (823044)
11-05-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by starman
11-05-2017 1:42 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Whatever there was or was not need not concern you since you don't know. You try to limit the future and past to the mere constraints of the current world.
Except that we do know what the evidence shows, and what it shows is consistent old age from one measuring system to another.
Can you explain that consistency -- why they all come to the same results with high degrees of consilience?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:42 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:58 PM RAZD has replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 593 of 1498 (823045)
11-05-2017 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 589 by RAZD
11-05-2017 1:50 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
We know lots of details from the last few hundred years. You have no details for the far past though.

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:50 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 2:09 PM starman has not replied
 Message 600 by JonF, posted 11-05-2017 3:01 PM starman has not replied

  
starman
Inactive Member


Message 594 of 1498 (823046)
11-05-2017 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by RAZD
11-05-2017 1:54 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Name a specific example of something that is consistent? Tree rings you can't even show us from 5000 years ago apparently! Ha. If you did, then what, you expect some weird bug anomaly there? Noah endured the nature change, and he probably looked much the same!

My Blog where comments and debate are welcome
https://mountaintwentyone.wixsite.com/home/blog

This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 1:54 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 598 by RAZD, posted 11-05-2017 2:24 PM starman has not replied
 Message 601 by JonF, posted 11-05-2017 3:05 PM starman has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 595 of 1498 (823047)
11-05-2017 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by starman
11-05-2017 1:52 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
starman writes:
Why use anything unless you know?
Because we have no reason to think that reality has magically changed. If water is wet today, it seems reasonable to assume it was wet a million years ago. Why wouldn't you?
starman writes:
Just admit ignorance.
Creationists don't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:52 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 604 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:48 AM ringo has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 596 of 1498 (823048)
11-05-2017 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by starman
11-05-2017 1:53 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
I seem to remember you could not even so much as produce a good pic of the inner tree rings for the bristlecone despite, if I recall having a family member in the field? Ha. ...
You appear to confuse me with someone else.
... Now you want to tell us that it all looks alike?
The pattern is consistent from year to year, decade to decade, millennia to millennia. Curiously the tree rings can be observed for the because it was cut down to count the rings.
quote:
... We may never know the true story of what happened to Prometheus, but we do know one thing for certain; Currey had permission from the Forest Service to have the tree cut down. Counting the rings later revealed that Prometheus contained 4,862 growth rings. ...
The stump of Prometheus is all that remains of the ancient giant within the grove. If you would like to travel through history by counting the rings of Prometheus, you can do so at the Great Basin National Park visitor center.
And you can also observe with your own eyes their consistent character of annual growth rings.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:53 PM starman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 605 by starman, posted 11-06-2017 1:50 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 597 of 1498 (823050)
11-05-2017 2:09 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by starman
11-05-2017 1:54 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
We know lots of details from the last few hundred years. You have no details for the far past though.
So you have no evidence, not even a shred to support your wild fantasy imaginings.
Fail. Not debating in good faith. Typical.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:54 PM starman has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 598 of 1498 (823051)
11-05-2017 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by starman
11-05-2017 1:58 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
I asked you:
"Can you explain that consistency -- why they all come to the same results with high degrees of consilience?"
Name a specific example of something that is consistent? ...
Your answer does not address that question, so I'll take that as no, that you cannot explain the consistency of results from multiple sources.
FAIL #2
... Tree rings you can't even show us from 5000 years ago apparently! Ha. If you did, then what, you expect some weird bug anomaly there? ...
Sadly, for you, the Bristlecone pine chronologies extend back to over 8,000 years ago with no remarkable change in growth patterns, and dead wood lying on the ground has been there without being floated off by some imaginary magic flood.
As noted above you can count the rings on the Prometheus stump, but that is not all: there is another Bristlecone pine that is over 5,070 years old (same reference as above)
quote:
... After the death of Prometheus, the oldest known living tree was a 4,847 year old bristlecone pine found in the White Mountains of California. It wasn’t until 2012 when another bristlecone from the same area proved to be 5,065 years old. There is a good chance there are older bristlecone pines that have not yet been dated. ...
That was 5 years ago ...
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : .

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:58 PM starman has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 599 of 1498 (823055)
11-05-2017 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 590 by starman
11-05-2017 1:52 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
We know. Past events leave traces.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:52 PM starman has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 190 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 600 of 1498 (823056)
11-05-2017 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 593 by starman
11-05-2017 1:54 PM


Re: Correlations Correlations Correlations
Oklo.
SN1987A.
And many more.
Our knowledge ranges much farther than your pitiful ignorance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 593 by starman, posted 11-05-2017 1:54 PM starman has not replied

  
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