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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
ringo
Member
Posts: 15766
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 841 of 1269 (841213)
10-09-2018 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 836 by creation
10-09-2018 12:21 AM


Re: And now some questions on past times
creation writes:

You see squat in the former nature....


Nobody has ever been able to show that there was a "former nature". It's a fairy tale, like Santa's workshop at the North Pole.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 836 by creation, posted 10-09-2018 12:21 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 845 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:11 AM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 842 of 1269 (841214)
10-09-2018 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 840 by ramoss
10-09-2018 9:36 AM


Re: And now some questions on past times
Not only are the dating of the writings are different, the evidence for the various flood that they relate are of different time frames. In other words, there were different floods, for which there are pieces of actual physical evidence for.

Akshully, all this means is that fallen humanity just can't get it right, whether it's ancient humanity garbling their memories of the Flood or modern humanity misdating ancient cultures. That's why we need the Bible.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 840 by ramoss, posted 10-09-2018 9:36 AM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 843 by RAZD, posted 10-09-2018 4:28 PM Faith has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19720
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 843 of 1269 (841222)
10-09-2018 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 842 by Faith
10-09-2018 12:13 PM


And now some correlations
Akshully, all this means is that fallen humanity just can't get it right, ...

Correlations Faith, correlations means we have high confidence in the results. Certainly when a single Bristlecone pine is 5,068 years old with no effect of a flood reaching it's mountaintop this means no flood in that period, period.

When we also have two independent dendrochronologies from nearby areas and they also (a) match each other, ring for ring except for two missing rings in one lining up with very narrow rings in the other, and (b) match the ages of this single tree, AND not show any effec of a flood reaching their mountaintops, this becomes much more than a single piece of evidence, because it means this covers a wider area than a single specimen.

Then we have the two independent oak dendrochronologies that match each other AND the Bristlecone pine dendrochronologies, one from peat marshes in Ireland and one from river valleys in Germany and THEY show no effects of massive floods in their areas, then the only logical conclusion is that no flood occurred in these times.

The dendrochronologies extend more than 12,000 years into the past with no visible effect of a massive world wide flood.

And they are the tip of the iceberg of layer by layer age measurements.

No special training is needed to count layers.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 842 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 12:13 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 6:53 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 844 of 1269 (841232)
10-09-2018 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 843 by RAZD
10-09-2018 4:28 PM


Re: And now some correlations
No, there's no point in speculating. I've usually put the many-ringed trees in the column against the Flood. There's a pro column and an anti column.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 843 by RAZD, posted 10-09-2018 4:28 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 846 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:13 AM Faith has responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 845 of 1269 (841299)
10-11-2018 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 841 by ringo
10-09-2018 11:55 AM


Re: And now some questions on past times
Or show nature was the same. Believe what you like.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 841 by ringo, posted 10-09-2018 11:55 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 849 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 12:31 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 846 of 1269 (841300)
10-11-2018 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 844 by Faith
10-09-2018 6:53 PM


Re: And now some correlations
If trees grew in weeks in the former nature, tree rings have no meaning then as they now would in regards to age. Except bt faith alone.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 844 by Faith, posted 10-09-2018 6:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 850 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2018 1:16 PM creation has not yet responded
 Message 851 by Faith, posted 10-11-2018 2:01 PM creation has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 847 of 1269 (841301)
10-11-2018 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 827 by JonF
10-08-2018 12:45 PM


Re: And now some questions on past times
Do we know for sure how to interpret the very earliest hieroglyphs?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 827 by JonF, posted 10-08-2018 12:45 PM JonF has not yet responded

    
creation
Member
Posts: 654
Joined: 01-22-2017


Message 848 of 1269 (841303)
10-11-2018 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 830 by RAZD
10-08-2018 1:41 PM


Re: Small clarification for you and Percy
Nothing in your link addresses the issue of what nature the trees grew in. Therefore no correlation is possible with anything but this nature. Ha.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 830 by RAZD, posted 10-08-2018 1:41 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 856 by RAZD, posted 10-11-2018 4:40 PM creation has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 15766
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 849 of 1269 (841324)
10-11-2018 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 845 by creation
10-11-2018 9:11 AM


Re: And now some questions on past times
creation writes:

Or show nature was the same.


That's dishonest. In real life you don't demand that everything be proven to be the same. You understand that the bus stop will be in the same place as yesterday. You understand that the bus will go to the same places as it did yesterday. If something changes - e.g. the bus route or schedule - you expect evidence to show the changes; you expect new route maps and published schedules.

You wouldn't expect the bus company to publish a new schedule every day saying, "Same as yesterday".

So why aren't you honest about science? Why do you demand that science document sameness when everywhere else we document only changes.

So why don't you be honest and document the changes that you claim?


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 845 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:11 AM creation has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19720
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 850 of 1269 (841328)
10-11-2018 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by creation
10-11-2018 9:13 AM


Re: And now some correlations
If trees grew in weeks in the former nature, ...

Demonstrating again your ignorance of what makes a tree ring annual. There are distinct markers for the different seasons of the year.

Also demonstrating that you have no idea of the problems with this bind assertion -- like how do you get the 14C levels to match the ring counts, how you get the rings to match the marine and lake varves.

AND you need a mechanism that accomplishes these changes in such a way that there is no visible transition.

Enoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:13 AM creation has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 851 of 1269 (841334)
10-11-2018 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 846 by creation
10-11-2018 9:13 AM


Re: And now some correlations
If trees grew in weeks in the former nature, tree rings have no meaning then as they now would in regards to age. Except bt faith alone.

Yes, I'm aware that there are various ways to explain how the tree rings could reflect the different environment before the Flood, but I don't think we have enough information to defend that possibility yet. Befpre I erased that post I went ahead and made some conjectures of my own about the different climate and then realized there are too many ways it doesn't hold together, at least with my own knowledge at present.

What I then do with the Flood issues is mentally put on one side the arguments that don't support the Flood and put those that do in the column on the other side. I have a lot of arguments that do so I figure a few I can't defend are no big deal, that eventually they can be defended too.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 846 by creation, posted 10-11-2018 9:13 AM creation has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 852 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2018 2:23 PM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6389
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 852 of 1269 (841339)
10-11-2018 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 851 by Faith
10-11-2018 2:01 PM


Re: And now some correlations
Faith writes:

What I then do with the Flood issues is mentally put on one side the arguments that don't support the Flood and put those that do in the column on the other side. I have a lot of arguments that do so I figure a few I can't defend are no big deal, that eventually they can be defended too.

That's confirmation bias, yet again. You did exactly that with your failed ascension - put enormous weight on what you wanted to believe and ignore what you don't.

Some evidence is 'black swan', that is, conclusive; it disproves absolutely an idea. The consilience of multiple dating methods alone is very close to that strength of evidence.

In your other pile, you have unproven and just plain stupid invention.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 851 by Faith, posted 10-11-2018 2:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 10-11-2018 2:28 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30202
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 853 of 1269 (841340)
10-11-2018 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 852 by Tangle
10-11-2018 2:23 PM


Re: And now some correlations
I figure I would have to personally examine the tree rings very closely to arrive at a meaningful theory.

Listen, I know the Flood happened, I accept the date of 4500 years ago, so just because I can't explain a given phenomenon says nothing about what really happened.

And of course I think I've come up with some blockbuster defenses of the Flood, which once they are recognized make all arguments against it obsolete.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 852 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2018 2:23 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 854 by Tangle, posted 10-11-2018 2:59 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 855 by ringo, posted 10-11-2018 3:07 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 862 by edge, posted 10-13-2018 9:23 PM Faith has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6389
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 854 of 1269 (841352)
10-11-2018 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 853 by Faith
10-11-2018 2:28 PM


Re: And now some correlations
Faith writes:

I figure I would have to personally examine the tree rings very closely to arrive at a meaningful theory.

You really, really don't. You can accept the information as it stands because science has been working on it for decades. That's how it works - thousands of experts are trying to find mistakes. But if you really have to you can. But of course you won't.

Listen, I know the Flood happened, I accept the date of 4500 years ago, so just because I can't explain a given phenomenon says nothing about what really happened.

Yes, we know you believe this nonsense but what you believe is irrelevant.

And of course I think I've come up with some blockbuster defenses of the Flood, which once they are recognized make all arguments against it obsolete.

This is the dumbest thing of all. You have absolutely nothing that stands up for a moment to objective scrutiny, literally nothing, but because of your previous statement you can't and won't see it.

But you could easily test it, try to get something published


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 10-11-2018 2:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15766
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 855 of 1269 (841356)
10-11-2018 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 853 by Faith
10-11-2018 2:28 PM


Re: And now some correlations
Faith writes:

... just because I can't explain a given phenomenon says nothing about what really happened.


The fact that NO creationist has been able to explain those phenomena says something about the viability of the YEC scenario. The fact that creationists make little or no effort to test their preconceived notions is also telling.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 853 by Faith, posted 10-11-2018 2:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 872 by dwise1, posted 10-21-2018 3:08 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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