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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 931 of 1077 (842274)
10-28-2018 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 926 by creation
10-28-2018 12:41 PM


Re: Constant constants
?? If the forces and laws the govern atoms changed, praytell, how would some halo in a rock be exempt from changing also?

You really have no clue regarding how things work. You change the radioactive process you change the energy involved and you change the constants that hold atoms and molecules together. You make it easier for alpha decay to happen faster, then it starts happening in other elements that have no evidence of radioactivity, either now or in the past. And then you need a way to speed up beta decay so that the pattern of decay chains occurs. Meanwhile molecules don't form or they fall apart.

You end up with a mess. Now to manage this so that it miraculously appears as the product of old age and current nature, you are going to have many more mechanisms to govern and tune each process to perfectly mimic current nature.

What it comes down to, is the fantasy of things being different in some past time means that the making of all things in past so that it perfectly replicates exactly evidence for actual old age while being much younger, means that your god is a joker and a liar.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 926 by creation, posted 10-28-2018 12:41 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 932 by creation, posted 10-28-2018 7:44 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 935 by edge, posted 10-28-2018 10:36 PM RAZD has responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 932 of 1077 (842278)
10-28-2018 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 931 by RAZD
10-28-2018 5:22 PM


Re: Constant constants
You have no clue how things worked.

What would be done is not change what we now have.

In any nature God deems to be in place there is order.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 931 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2018 5:22 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 933 of 1077 (842279)
10-28-2018 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 930 by RAZD
10-28-2018 5:09 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Many people place the flood somewhere around 4500 years ago. Noah observed no trees, so he stayed in the ark. Then a week later birds returned with evidence of a fresh tree. So he knew he could give the order to vacate the ark.

Noah observed men living a lot less years, because he lived centuries after the flood. If your dates are correct, he was alive when the furniture was made.

We would not see any change in nature, because the nature we see is not what changed!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 930 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2018 5:09 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 934 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2018 9:35 PM creation has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 934 of 1077 (842281)
10-28-2018 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 933 by creation
10-28-2018 7:48 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
Message 932: You have no clue how things worked.
What would be done is not change what we now have.
In any nature God deems to be in place there is order.

This is getting to the point of ridiculous repetition. Please present something to support your fantasy, otherwise there is no point in your argument worth considering. This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence not religious belief.

Many people place the flood somewhere around 4500 years ago. Noah observed no trees, so he stayed in the ark. Then a week later birds returned with evidence of a fresh tree. So he knew he could give the order to vacate the ark.

A leaf is not a full grown tree. That is not evidence of fast growth of trees.

Can you provide objective empirical evidence of the landing site of the ark? This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence not religious belief.

Noah observed men living a lot less years, because he lived centuries after the flood. If your dates are correct, he was alive when the furniture was made.

What is your evidence for this claim? This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence not religious belief.

We would not see any change in nature, because the nature we see is not what changed!

And presto-chango magic did it, courtesy of your local god/s ... you just can't see it because it's magic ...

Please stop with the garbage regurgitation, and start posting some substance to back your claims.

Religious magic-god-did-it babble is not any kind of scientific argument and certainly does not explain any of the correlations.

Your fantasy imaginary change in nature is less credible than the wizard of oz.

The amusing thing about your posts on this thread is that you are adding to the massive evidence that creationists are incapable of explaining the correlations. Here we are at 934 posts on this version of this thread, add:


(this is Version 2 number 1, with new and updated information that has been uncovered by science since version 1)

... and you have 1,894 posts ... and not one explanation of a single correlation by a creationist, not one creationist has been able to explain the objective empirical evidence of several different age measuring systems have high degrees of correlations for the ages involved. Many have tried, all have failed. Like you they rarely get past the tree ring correlations.

So you're in great company, making creationism look incapable of dealing with this reality.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 933 by creation, posted 10-28-2018 7:48 PM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 937 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:27 AM RAZD has responded

  
edge
Member
Posts: 4418
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 935 of 1077 (842282)
10-28-2018 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 931 by RAZD
10-28-2018 5:22 PM


Re: Constant constants
What it comes down to, is the fantasy of things being different in some past time means that the making of all things in past so that it perfectly replicates exactly evidence for actual old age while being much younger, means that your god is a joker and a liar.

We haven't even seen the half of it here. This guy has been polluting discussion forums for years now and, in case you haven't seen it, things only get more bizarre as time goes on. Not really worth responding to.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 931 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2018 5:22 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 936 by RAZD, posted 10-29-2018 8:06 AM edge has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19665
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 936 of 1077 (842296)
10-29-2018 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 935 by edge
10-28-2018 10:36 PM


PRATT CA221: Were you there?
We haven't even seen the half of it here. This guy has been polluting discussion forums for years now and, in case you haven't seen it, things only get more bizarre as time goes on. Not really worth responding to.

Yep, give a creationist an argument he thinks is stellar and not being able to recognize the faults, and they'll run with it ad nauseum.

His argument about past nature is just a regurgitation of PRATT CA221 applied to everything ...

quote:
Claim CA221:

(In response to any claim about the history of life) Were you there?

Source:

Ham, Ken. 1989. Were you there? Back To Genesis 10a (Oct.), http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=articles&action=view&...

Response:

  1. Yes, because "there" is here. Events in the past leave traces that last into the present, and we can and do look at that evidence today.
  2. If this response were a valid challenge to evolution, it would equally invalidate creationism and Christianity, since they are based on events that nobody alive today has witnessed.
  3. A more useful and more general question is, "How do you know?" If the person making a claim can not answer that question, you may consider the claim baseless (tentatively, as someone else may be able to answer). If the answer is subjective -- for example, if it rests on the person's religious convictions -- you know that the claim does not necessarily apply to anyone but that person. If you can not understand the answer, you probably have some studying to do. If you get a good answer, you know to take the claim seriously.


Traces in the present, like the measurable actual existing levels of C14 in tree rings and artifacts.

We have asked creation to show how he knows that the past was different and when that difference occurred, and there has been no answer to that question, his claim IS baseless.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 935 by edge, posted 10-28-2018 10:36 PM edge has not yet responded

  
creation
Member
Posts: 425
Joined: 01-14-2018


Message 937 of 1077 (842300)
10-29-2018 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 934 by RAZD
10-28-2018 9:35 PM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
This is getting to the point of ridiculous repetition. Please present something to support your fantasy of a same state past, otherwise there is no point in your argument worth considering. This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence not religious belief. Really.

What the bible says about Noah, is a record of His life. It goes to evidence of what things were like in those days. Science doesn't know. In any discussion of creation, one must look not only at what science does not know, and cannot deal with, but also at what evidences mankind does have. As much as origin fable false science folks want to wave everything away to defend their empty religion, a science forum cannot just be about such willful religious ignorance.

Your correlations are all belief based. As I said all dating always has to get down to radioactive decay dates. Your king lists and tree rings simply have no meaning for the far past unless nature was the same. You have shown you do not know or care and that you will blunder on, using your beliefs to model the past regardless.

You wave off any possible change in nature because it does not fit with your naturedunnit dogma. That is not honest and open minded, that is actually insanity. All history and bible records must be waved away in your religion. No creator can be considered. 'There could never have been any change because...there is no God'. That is not science.

All your correlations are explained easily as religious drivel. All are based on only one belief. No science, just belief. The jig is up.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 934 by RAZD, posted 10-28-2018 9:35 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 938 by Tangle, posted 10-29-2018 11:32 AM creation has not yet responded
 Message 939 by ringo, posted 10-29-2018 12:14 PM creation has responded
 Message 940 by AdminPhat, posted 10-29-2018 1:12 PM creation has responded
 Message 941 by RAZD, posted 10-29-2018 1:27 PM creation has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6233
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(3)
Message 938 of 1077 (842308)
10-29-2018 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 937 by creation
10-29-2018 10:27 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
creation writes:

All your correlations are explained easily as religious drivel.

Quit trolling.

There's a mountain of confirmed, fact-based evidence supporting the age of things. If you have evidence to support your personal assertion that time was somehow different a few thousand years ago, present it.

Otherwise shut the fuck up.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 937 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:27 AM creation has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15569
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 939 of 1077 (842315)
10-29-2018 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 937 by creation
10-29-2018 10:27 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
creation writes:

What the bible says about Noah, is a record of His life. It goes to evidence of what things were like in those days.


And it doesn't say anything about nature changing.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 937 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:27 AM creation has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 943 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:42 PM ringo has responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1885
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004


(2)
Message 940 of 1077 (842317)
10-29-2018 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 937 by creation
10-29-2018 10:27 AM


Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
This is getting to the point of ridiculous repetition. Please present something to support your fantasy of "a same-state" past, otherwise there is no point in your argument worth considering. This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence, not religious belief. Really.
Really? You are the one who needs to provide evidence. Please do so. Forum Guidelines

Religious texts do not qualify as evidence. There is no evidence that science is a religion. Please conform to the Forum Guidelines.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


  • Please stay on topic for a thread. Open a new thread for new topics.
  • Points should be supported with evidence and reasoned argumentation.
  • The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 937 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:27 AM creation has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 942 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:40 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

        
    RAZD
    Member
    Posts: 19665
    From: the other end of the sidewalk
    Joined: 03-14-2004
    Member Rating: 2.9


    Message 941 of 1077 (842319)
    10-29-2018 1:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 937 by creation
    10-29-2018 10:27 AM


    Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
    RAZD Message 937: This is getting to the point of ridiculous repetition. Please present something to support your fantasy, otherwise there is no point in your argument worth considering. This is a scientific forum, so you need to provide evidence not religious belief.

    Should be in a quote box so readers know where it came from.

    This is kindergarten style argument, not one supporting your assertions.

    What the bible says about Noah, is a record of His life. It goes to evidence of what things were like in those days. Science doesn't know. In any discussion of creation, one must look not only at what science does not know, and cannot deal with, but also at what evidences mankind does have. As much as origin fable false science folks want to wave everything away to defend their empty religion, a science forum cannot just be about such willful religious ignorance.

    Your correlations are all belief based. As I said all dating always has to get down to radioactive decay dates. Your king lists and tree rings simply have no meaning for the far past unless nature was the same. You have shown you do not know or care and that you will blunder on, using your beliefs to model the past regardless.

    You wave off any possible change in nature because it does not fit with your naturedunnit dogma. That is not : honest and open minded, that is actually insanity. All history and bible records must be waved away in your religion. No creator can be considered. 'There could never have been any change because...there is no God'. That is not science.

    All your correlations are explained easily as religious drivel. All are based on only one belief. No science, just belief. The jig is up.

    Fixed it for you. Took out all the religious nonsense and your repeated assertions that have no evidential basis.

    This shows how empty your argument is. You have made 98 posts on this thread and have not presented a single piece of supporting evidence either for your fantasy assertion of a "former nature" being different from the present, nor for you claim that science is based on beliefs rather than objective empirical evidence, known facts and logical conclusion made, theories that are tested -- not because they are beliefs, but because they are tentative conclusions and possibly wrong, they are tested to remove wrong conclusions. It's called the scientific process. You should try it some time.

    At best you've only accomplished the first step, and that hardly qualifies as sufficient for a science thread argument.

    Again, this is a science thread, and that means you need to present evidence to support your argument rather than just repeated it ad nauseum.

    And I see you have been warned.

    Enjoy

    Edited by RAZD, : .


    we are limited in our ability to understand
    by our ability to understand
    RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
    ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
    to share.


    Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 937 by creation, posted 10-29-2018 10:27 AM creation has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 944 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:43 PM RAZD has responded

      
    creation
    Member
    Posts: 425
    Joined: 01-14-2018


    Message 942 of 1077 (842363)
    10-30-2018 12:40 PM
    Reply to: Message 940 by AdminPhat
    10-29-2018 1:12 PM


    Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
    I am one asking for evidence. Unless it is forthcoming we will have to admit that there is no proof for the basis of modeling the past used by science.

    I do not know about the nature in the past, so I have no burden of proof either way. Those who claim it was the same do have a heavy burden of proof.

    I have pointed out that it is only a belief, and not known. Since I have my own beliefs, why would I exchange those for beliefs in some same nature in the past that contradicts the record of antiquity we have of that time in Scripture?

    You must show any claimed nature in the past to be true and totally bear the burden of proof. To try and avoid the issue by lamely insisting that anyone questioning your belief bears responsibility to prove they are wrong is dishonest and weak.

    The part of science that is belief based is the parts involving origin claims. So don't try to hide behind science as a whole.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 940 by AdminPhat, posted 10-29-2018 1:12 PM AdminPhat has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 946 by JonF, posted 10-30-2018 1:26 PM creation has responded

        
    creation
    Member
    Posts: 425
    Joined: 01-14-2018


    Message 943 of 1077 (842364)
    10-30-2018 12:42 PM
    Reply to: Message 939 by ringo
    10-29-2018 12:14 PM


    Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
    Since what is described is impossible in this nature and a big change occurred, you are wrong. We have many details from before and after and they contrast starkly.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 939 by ringo, posted 10-29-2018 12:14 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 945 by ringo, posted 10-30-2018 12:46 PM creation has responded

        
    creation
    Member
    Posts: 425
    Joined: 01-14-2018


    Message 944 of 1077 (842365)
    10-30-2018 12:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 941 by RAZD
    10-29-2018 1:27 PM


    Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
    My observation is that your correlation claims are all based on one belief. I need no counter hypothesis.
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 941 by RAZD, posted 10-29-2018 1:27 PM RAZD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 947 by RAZD, posted 10-30-2018 3:50 PM creation has responded

        
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 15569
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 1.7


    Message 945 of 1077 (842367)
    10-30-2018 12:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 943 by creation
    10-30-2018 12:42 PM


    Re: Correlation validation by Egyptian Chronology
    creation writes:

    Since what is described is impossible in this nature and a big change occurred, you are wrong.


    The Flood was an impossible event, not a "change in nature".

    creation writes:

    We have many details from before and after and they contrast starkly.


    Name "changes in nature" that happened in the Bible before the flood and after. Then give evidence that they happened in reality.

    And our geese will blot out the sun.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 943 by creation, posted 10-30-2018 12:42 PM creation has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 950 by creation, posted 10-31-2018 1:45 PM ringo has responded

      
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