D&D and satanisim

Ok, yeah, I can kind of see that... I dunno. It's tenuous at best, if you ask me. But you're entitled to your interpretation.Anyway that doesn't seem so much like ressurection as it is like assumption - like how Jesus is assumed into heaven. But that's a Catholic quibble. Aragorn = Arthur
Gandalf = Merlin
Narsil = ExcaliburFrom stuff I've read about Tolkien part of what he was doing was attempting to create a uniquely British mythology, like the Arthur stuff before the French influence. Maybe not a "rip-off", but I could see it as an attenpt to fuze arthurian-style romanticism with loosely Christian themes.

Yeah, I was grasping at straws, but it works as well as any biblical interpretation you see on these forums. Yeah, you definitely have a point. And I'm saying that the Arthurian legend is in part based on older Anglo-Saxon mythology so it is no surprise there are such similarities.Tolkien was trying to create a unique sort of British mythology, but as an Anglo-Saxon scholar, he used a lot of themes and ideas from that mythology. Even many names, e.g. names like Thorin, Dwalin, Balin, etc., come from that mythology.Also if you ever read any Norse sagas, you'll see a few familiar names for people and things as well.

The world is too funny. Not twenty minutes after reading your post I saw a link to this in another thread: Why Tolkien Says The Lord of the Rings Is Catholic

quote:

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If, however, Christ is never mentioned by name in The Lord of the Rings, how can we discern his invisible presence?

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The most obvious parallel between Tolkien's myth and the Christian truth it reflects so faithfully is in the nature of the quest which constitutes the principal animus of Tolkien's story. The journey of Frodo and Sam into the very heart of Mordor in order to destroy, or unmake, the Ring in the fires of Mt. Doom is emblematic of the Christian's imitation of Christ in carrying the cross of sin.

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At its most profound level, The Lord of the Rings is a sublimely mystical passion play. The carrying of the ring the emblem of sin is the carrying of the cross. This is the ultimate applicability of The Lord of the Rings that we have to lose our life in order to gain it; that unless we die we cannot live; that we must all take up our cross and follow him.

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Yeah baby! Who's da man! (well, LOTR geek I guess... )

well, yes and no. king arthur, from what i've heard, was actually a real king around 900 ad, and defended his nation-state and neighboring one from invaders. kinda fuzzy on the details. at a certain point, norse and anglo-saxon are almost interchangeable. for instance, the older anglo-saxon epic we have is beowulf. beowulf was norse.originally, the angles and the saxons were warring brittish tribes, who, i think united to stop a norse invasion. also fuzzy here. (been a while since i read anything on early english history).but anyhow, the dwarves, thorin, dwalin, etc, are almost certainly based on norsemen. they drink and have parties in great halls which are described exactly like the norse halls. they're burly have huge beards. they're practially short viking stereotypes.hobbits are vitorian englishmen. the men are medieval englishmen. not sure on the elves though...but i do see a lot vaguely borrowed from norse and anglo-saxon/christian mythology in the series...

Oh, I totally agree. I mean, do I even have to mention Wagner's Ring Cycle?Point taken about Tolkien and Catholicism. Though, if you looked hard enough, you could find Christian themes in Dude, Where's My Car?

(*BLINK*)Did you just say what I think you said?(*BLINK*)Doesn't everybody know Dude, Where's My Car is Paul's attempt to convert the Roman Empire?

hahahahahha

While we're on the subject, you guys should check out the Lords of the Rhymes.Hobbiton, it's on! Seriously... a Gollum beatbox?This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-16-2004 08:09 AM

Oh my stars and garters! You've struck gold!

Why did this Jesus wannabe have to be such a wussbag?!I contest that John Madden could take him in a slap fight.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

I could you ask you the same question: why did the Jesus of the bible have to be such a wussbag?All he had to do was hang out with prostitutes and lepers, deal with a couple of Pharisees and then some measely crucifixion. Heck even Gollum had to put up with more than that.

JRR Tolkein firmly stated that LOTR was not an allegory of any kind.It's relevance, or similarity, to any real world happenings or events has more to do with the timelessness of the story and it's nature as a myth, rather than any special meaning put into it by the author.Besides, you gotta admit, the whole godman, resurection, coming of age, good vs. evil thing, is pretty played out as far as myths go. The Bible didn't invent it all, it's just a human nature kinda thing

You're forgetting when he opened a can of amazing grace on a bunch of people defiling a synogouge with prostitution etc. Taking on a whole group of bad boys with just a whip is pretty awesome, and with the thought in mind that he COULD have killed all of the people that took him to the cross single-handedly, it shows how strong his spirit was when he didn't.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Whereas those money changers had all those coins to throw at him?Whip versus coins, hmmm.Are most of the bankers you know 'bad boys'?TTFN,WK

Yeah, I totally agree. It certainly seems like a human archetype.I think I disagree with this statement though: I've read some reviews and quotes to this effect about Tolkien, they also go on to claim that the LOTR saga wasn't strongly influenced by WWI, WWII, and the Neibelungleid.I know it may come off as being arrogant to the Rrhainth degree ( ) to contradict the author regarding the themes within his own work, but one must willfully ignore the evidence that Tolkien wasn't influenced by these events -at the very least subconsciously - and they found their way into his work.I don't think that is an uncommon occurence with authors. In, On Writing, Stephen King discussed how themes and ideas seem to write themselves. I submit this happened with Tolkien as well: he couldn't completely escape being a product of his environment (Catholicism, world war, etc.) and it found its way into his work.Or maybe the Genesis myth has been etched into psyche to the degree that when I read (in the Silmarillion) [quote] Ilvatar muttered "E", that is, "be!". This order created the universe, and therefore the universe became known as "E". [/qs] I am compelled to make the connection with "Let there be light."Then there is the whole Melkor theme... how can one help thinking of anything other than Lucifer?Perhaps LOTR isn't an allegory, but it is certainly rife with Christian themes.This message has been edited by custard, 06-17-2004 03:57 PM