How old are you?

buzsaw responds to me:

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What he was saying here, is that the generation which sees these things (like Israel back in control of Jerusalem and end of Gentile times) shall not pass (pass away) till all is fulfilled.

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Incorrect. He is not talking about some future generation. He is talking about that generation...the ones he is speaking to directly, right there, right then. Some of those people to whom he was directly speaking would live to see the end of the world.That was nearly 2,000 years ago. Are they still alive?

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I'm interpreting this in view of other things he and the prophets said. You can make scripture appear to say just about anything you want it to say by isolating statements like this.

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That's why I didn't isolate them but provided you with two dozen examples. It was not an isolated instance. The New Testament was written with the idea that the world was going to end Real Soon Now.------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

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You can make scripture appear to say just about anything you want it to say by isolating statements like this.

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Exactly, Buz.Exactly.

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Incorrect. He is not talking about some future generation. He is talking about that generation...the ones he is speaking to directly, right there, right then. Some of those people to whom he was directly speaking would live to see the end of the world.

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That was nearly 2,000 years ago. Are they still alive?

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The text is obvious that he was talking about a time in the future when his gospel would be preached worldwide, Jerusalem would be occupied by gentiles until their age was completed, gentiles out and Jews back in, there would be many wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes in unusual places, the sun and moon darkened, false christs and prophets arising, and more.Note that the verse before his generation statement, he says, "when you see these things beginning to pass, you know that it is near, even at the door."
What things? The list of things he said would happen. It is only sensible to understand that his little gospel isn't going worldwide, the Jews being scattered and then returning and all this stuff in one generation. There's a whole lotta things to happen before the generation coming he was speaking of.Get real, Rrhain!I've done my homework on the Bible and especially the prophecies -- 58 years of it and you need a lot more understanding in it and related texts before you're gonna be able to say it's gotta be as you see it.

Well done, buzsaw! I concur heartily.

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Well done, buzsaw! I concur heartily.

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WOW! I can't believe somebody in town actually agrees with me on something. THANKS, Defender!! Are you a real person or an angel from Heaven? Whoever you are, don't run off![This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-17-2003]

Cheerleader!Argue for yourself!

I'm here to stay. I really enjoyed your arguments on the authority of the Bible. You sound like a staunch creationist (just like me). Have you ever visited the Answers in Genesis website?I'd add my age, but I'm a bit wary of such things on the Web...

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I've never even driven a motorcycle. That will have to wait for my second mid-life crisis

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You don't know what you are missing!!! Don't need a mid-life
crisis either -- any excuse will do

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I'm here to stay.

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Good. I hope you're thick skinned. That you must be as a fundamentalist Biblical creationist here in this townif you plan to stay.

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I really enjoyed your arguments on the authority of the Bible. You sound like a staunch creationist (just like me).

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I am a fundamentalist Biblical creationist. I don't believe that Genesis one necessarily teaches a young earth, but I do believe all animals (including the dinosaurs} and mankind were created about six milleniums ago. The plants were created on day three (before the sun and moon) which became the measurement for the 24 hour day so since we don't know how long an evening and morning were before the sun and moon measured them to 24 hours, I don't think we can be sure they were not long periods of time.

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Have you ever visited the Answers in Genesis website?

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I just checked it out. Thanks. I'll look it over more when I have more time.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-18-2003]

Glad to hear it. (No, really.) Join the debate any time you like. Only - if you do, please make sure you've read enough of the forum to avoid the posting of any tired, refuted-a-hundred-times arguments. And if you post a new topic do try and limit your original post to at most one or two relevant points.I mention these things because I've seen far too many creationists launch into the debate by cutting-and-pasting this.Here's a rule of thumb - if you didn't write it yourself, we've seen it.Ok, sorry to come down like a moderator on you - I'm not - and I do welcome you to the site. Happy hunting.

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Here's a rule of thumb - if you didn't write it yourself, we've seen it.

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1. This's not altogether true. I've posted links, scripture, personal quotes, statistics, etc of material that the input and responses of the majority of you people suggest you have either never seen, you need to be reminded of, you chose to ignore, or you have forgotten.2. When one posts responses or statements one is not expertise in, one may need to use links of persons whose expertise is sufficient for intelligent participation. Some of you folks who are not expertise on Biblical subjects have done the same by quoting scripture or other source for argument. On occasion this may render the need for some repetition.3. You core posters here, for the most part, who are highly educated, highly experienced debaters and of above average intelligence (but of one mindset), have been here for a long period of time. Many who have not been here for a lengthy time simply don't have time to research the archives to see all that's been said and quoted or linked.4. Having said the above is not a total refutation of your points by me. It's just that your post should not intimidate newcomers to the point that they're squeemish about using other reference material to support their personal views which they wish to communicate here, especially in the free for all forum.

Well, it was not my hope to do so - I encourage persons of all views to expound on them, in whatever mode they choose - but rather impress strongly upon a newbie that it only takes 2 seconds to search the archives to see if something has been posted already - 2 seconds that could be the difference between a great debate and more FFGfollower nonsense.Sorry if I came off as an ass, though.

.............point 5. Often when one makes a statement or claim, another challenges with something like, ".....and your proof is," or "......that's false/untrue." What is one to do? Lie down and roll over? I often choose rather to bring up a link or quote other authority to support my challenged statement or claim. Creationists likely are more likely to resort to this here in this town because there are so few of us to support one one another's views. Evos, on the other hand very often lend support one another in debating a single creationist, they being the vast majority here.

I think you've misunderstood which posts I'm talking about. I have no problem with links to stuff like Answers in Genesis in the context of a raging debate, to support a point already stated by the poster.What I was hoping to prevent was a post along the lines of the link I had, where somebody posts a message that consists entirely of "This is proof against evilution: answersingenesis.org".I mean, what are we supposed to debate there? You can't debate with a website any more than you can debate with a book. Books don't talk. And when we say "Um, we'd like you to post something a little more pithy" they're all like "evolutionist bias!"Surely you've noticed this happening?

Thanks, Crashfrog, for clarification. Btw, from almost day one of my arrival, though we occasionally lock horns in spirited debate, you're one of my favorite evo counterparts here. May God (Jehovah, that is) enlighten us all.