One Word Got Me In Trouble.

quote:

---

Of course, never mind that Catholocism was the only kind of Christianity for many centuries before the Protestant Reformation.

---

False. Who do you think those roasted alive over the fagots at the stakes and who suffered and died in dark dungeons during Dark Age inquisitions of the popes and bishops of Vatican City were? Robbers, rapists and murderers? Nooooneeee! They were for the most part, the true saints, the real Christians who stood fast, refusing at the price of their lives to capitulate to that scarlet harlot, Mystery Babylon, 'drunken with the blood of the saints.' They were those medieval protestants who suffered severly those dark centuries before Martin Luther and some other notables prevailed and survived. They, like the Christians of communist China today were the unseen martyrs and true believers who were willing to pay the ulitimate price if need be to worship freely the true Majesty of the Universe and his son, Jesus the Christ/messiah/saviour.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-07-2003]

The only "protestants" in those days were Catholic. And the great reformer himself a Catholic priest. It was the only brand of Christianity allowed, and, as you have noted, "protesters" risked their lives to do so. Yes, they were protest-ants but there were no Protestant Churches.The medieval "protestants" were Catholic.------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?

quote:

---

Oh please. We were GIVING MILLIONS IN AID TO THE TALIBAN!!! We SUPPORTED SADDAM HUSSEIN IN THE 80'S EVEN THOUGH WE KNEW HE WAS A LUNATIC AND WERE GASSING HIS OWN PEOPLE!!! WE ARE PAKISTAN'S BEST BUDDY EVEN THOUGH THE CURRENT MILITARY DICTATOR CAME TO POWER IN A BLOODY COUP!!! WE ARRANGED FOR THE REMOVAL OF A DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED LEADER IN IRAN AND REPLACED HIM WITH THE TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT OF THE SHAH, WHICH BROUGHT ABOUT THE RELIGIOUS FUNDAMENTALIST TAKEOVER BY THE IATOLLAH KHOMEINI!!!

---

1. Shraf, State Department politics is one thing. Christian missions along with Christian organizations like Voice of the Martyrs, Franklin Grahams Smaritan's Purse, world relief organizations such as the Salvation Army, the Red Cross, Hopegivers International, and a host of others are quite another. I agree our State Department policies over the years have been terrible and have caused much suffering to many, but our government does provide aid such as food, technology, etc to many desperate people around the world.2. You have picked out a few of our looser blunders in the foreign aid business. How about some of the positives, like rebuilding Western Europe and Japan postwar most of who came out better nations than before the war. How about Israel, that little significant sole friend of the West in the Middle East who has stood up to the Islamic threat and the Russian threat for total control of the Middle East? Without our aid, how would they have survived, humanly speaking?

Had they been Roman Catholic indeed, they would've not have been tortured and coerced into following Vaticanish dictates. After all, all they would've needed to do was acknowledge the pope as their holy father, confess to the priests their sins and submit to the demands of the bishops and doctrines that they imposed to save their necks. They protested, i.e. were protestants. Many were Catholic, but like Luther, saw the light and opted out. Under Jesuit law, as is the case with Islam, you are then a heretic renouncing your Catholic or Islamic religion and the punishment for heresy under both religions is death.[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 08-08-2003]

quote:

---

How about Israel...

---

Don't bring this tragedy up as a 'success.' Isreal represents the rape of a people.------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

Just a question Buz. Is torturing, killing and even burning "heretics" wrong in itself or only when *you're* on the side of the "heretics" ?I ask because there were a lot of Catholics killed by Protestants and even some people who ran afoul of both sides (e.g. Michael Servetus, who escaped from the inquisition only to be burnt alive by the Council of Geneva - after which Calvin wrote in approval of the execution of heretics).

quote:

---

They were for the most part, the true saints, the real Christians who stood fast, refusing at the price of their lives to capitulate to that scarlet harlot, Mystery Babylon, 'drunken with the blood of the saints.'

---

It appears you don't know your history. That, or you are supporting some very atypical belief and practise as 'true christianity.' Say, for example, the ideas of David of Denant or those of Amaury de Bene. Maybe you mean to support the Beghards of Cologne?------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

quote:

---

How about Israel, that little significant sole friend of the West in the Middle East who has stood up to the Islamic threat and the Russian threat for total control of the Middle East?

---

Why must American policy continually see everything foreign to their culture as a "threat"? First communism in Russia. Then when the USSR collapsed you turned to Islam. But what else do I expect froma country who gets the jitters thinking we would commit terrorist atrocities on our own bloody holidays!

Has to be referring to the Waldensians. Modern-day Baptist True Believers (TM), for instance, trace their philosphical roots to the Waldensian Heresy via the Dutch Baptists. There's no way buzz'd countenance any of others like the Docetans, Gnostics, Mithraists, or even the other Manichanean sects like the Albigensians or Cathars.

But he does say 'for the MOST part'... Can't just pick one and call it 'most.' ------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

quote:

---

Don't bring this tragedy up as a 'success.' Isreal represents the rape of a people.

---

Put yourself in the shoes of either the Pilgrims who fled Europe for religious freedom or in the shoes of the Jews whose friends and relatives were slaughtered in Europe. Neither the Pilgrims who risked the deadly voyages to cross the oceans to find freedom and deliverance from oppression or the Jews who fled Europe to be free and safe were rapists of peoples. At the time the Jews came into Palestine they went in with the blessings of the UN and majority of nations. The trouble began when after they began improving the sesolate land, the Palestinians wanted it. They initiated four wars over the decades to get it each time, suffering defeat and three out of four attempts, loss of land in the process.

quote:

---

I ask because there were a lot of Catholics killed by Protestants and even some people who ran afoul of both sides (e.g. Michael Servetus, who escaped from the inquisition only to be burnt alive by the Council of Geneva - after which Calvin wrote in approval of the execution of heretics).

---

1. Yes, I did say, "by and large." Thanks John. 2. With the kings of Europe and their armies in the pockets of Vatican City, what ratio of protestan/Catholic killings are you talking?

quote:

---

Why must American policy continually see everything foreign to their culture as a "threat"? First communism in Russia. Then when the USSR collapsed you turned to Islam. But what else do I expect froma country who gets the jitters thinking we would commit terrorist atrocities on our own bloody holidays!

---

1. Communism because 60 millions were murdered by their own governments last century, mostly athiestic communist governments.2. Islam, because in 30 nations Islam is so ruthlessly exclusivistic that there is little or no religious freedom in most of them; because the Koran teaches violence to infidels and heretics and because most of the terrorism around the world in modern times is perpetuated by those closest to the Koran and the prophet Muhammed's doctrines and personal example.

Neither the OT or the NT allows for Christians to kill heretics or infidels. Only on specific occasions were specific people given the order to kill in the OT and Jesus and the apostles never allowed for any of this killing by Christians in the NT. Any who do so are acting contrary to the clear doctrines of the Bible whether they be Protestant or Catholic. Nearly all true Christians have recognize that fact and lived according, often being the victims of those who thought and taught otherwise. Thus the apostle Paul said, "It is given to you, not only to believe in Jesus Christ but to suffer for his sake." Don't remember the text reference, but will furnish it if anyone wishes.

Which tends to support the previous assertion to which you objected: That there was only one brand of Christianity. All others be damned. Not good enough. The confession was supposed to save their immortal souls, not their necks. Once identified as a heretic, your number is up. Recantation was for the benefit of the audience, not the victim. Was Jesus the Christ? Does that make him a Christian?Did Jesus protest? Does that make him a Protestant?Does judging make you a Judge?Does crying in town make you the Town Crier?I realize this is an argument of semantics. Do you realize it? Luther did not "opt out." Run and hide? Yes. That is true for Protestantism as well. If you depart from the straight and narrow, as defined by your denomination. If you do that which displeases God and grieves the Holy Spirit. If you don't qualify for entry into Paradise, then what awaits you? Or have you forgotten, "the wages of sin"?And don't even try to tell me that Protestants have never killed anyone in the name of God.------------------
Doesn't anyone graduate Sunday School?