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Author Topic:   The Three Kinds of Creationists
Taq
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Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 288 of 432 (658221)
04-03-2012 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by jar
04-03-2012 11:41 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
In your example you mentioned GOD placing false fingerprints at a crime scene and I said that I believe that would be possible.
BUT, all we can go by is what science can show us and that is that the fingerprints were found at the crime scene.
Science goes farther than that, however. Science then compares the fingerprints at the crime sciene with the fingerprints of the defendant to determine if they are a match. If they match, then the forensic scientist uses this evidence to conclude that the defendant was at the crime scene and left those fingerprints. That is the science. Believing that GOD could have produced those fingerprints without the defendant ever being present directly casts doubt on the science. It requires the scientific conclusion to be thrown out. That is a problematic worldview.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 11:41 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 12:25 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 313 of 432 (658281)
04-03-2012 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by jar
04-03-2012 12:25 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
Uh, no, it does not require that the conclusion get thrown out unless evidence could be presented that would show that God planted it.
You have already stated that it is impossible to get this evidence, so it must always be considered. Therefore, the scientific conclusion should be thrown out as being forever untrustworthy. That is a problematic worldview.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 12:25 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 4:52 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 318 of 432 (658293)
04-03-2012 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by jar
04-03-2012 4:52 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
If it is impossible to get the evidence why should it EVER be considered?
Indeed. So do you personally consider that which can never be evidenced?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 4:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 5:15 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 325 of 432 (658300)
04-03-2012 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 320 by jar
04-03-2012 5:15 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
Maybe it's a language problem or some words left out but I don't understand what you are asking there?
Then I will rephrase. You say that we should not consider that which can not be evidenced, such as the GOD planting finger prints at a crime scene. However, it seems that you do believe that unevidenced supernatural actions on the part of GOD do occur. That is your position, is it not?

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 Message 320 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 5:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 326 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 6:17 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 335 of 432 (658355)
04-04-2012 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by jar
04-03-2012 6:17 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
The actions cannot be evidenced or the entity performing the actions but the results can be evidenced.
According to what you said earlier, one should not consider entities that can not be evidenced. Here you are saying that you do.
However in the example under discussion, being on a jury in a trial, we are charged to put aside personal beliefs and to make a decision based solely on the evidence presented.
I don't mean to single you out, but it is your personal beliefs that I am trying to discuss with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by jar, posted 04-03-2012 6:17 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 11:35 AM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 339 of 432 (658372)
04-04-2012 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by jar
04-04-2012 11:35 AM


Re: Supernatural 101
Again, maybe you should stop trying to tell me what I say or believe, or actually get it right and in context.
In Message 315 you stated:
"If it is impossible to get the evidence why should it EVER be considered?"
This seemed to be a general statement, but perhaps I am missing some important context. From what I have read, the worldview you are describing is a very conflicted one. On one hand you advocate the view that we should not consider things for which there is no evidence. At the same time, you are professing a personal belief in things that can not be evidenced. I understand that you are NOT prescribing the way in which we SHOULD think. I am merely discussing the way in which you DO think.
Am I getting this right? Am I missing something?
If God planted the finger prints we can see the result, the finger prints are there. But we have no way to observe, test, inspect the actual act itself, the act of God planting the finger print.
This example keeps getting hung up on the letter of the law so let's move back to one of your earlier examples. If I am reading it correctly, you believe that God inspires people to have certain thoughts, such as not to step in front of a bus or a sudden inspiration to run a specific clinical test. You also seem to indicate that we have no way of evidencing this inspiration. So why do you even consider that this inspiration even occurs since you have no evidence for it, or are you saying that you do believe in things for which there is no evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 11:35 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 12:58 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 341 of 432 (658374)
04-04-2012 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by jar
04-04-2012 12:58 PM


Re: Supernatural 101
That does not man that I do not have sufficient evidence to support my personal beliefs, but it is personal evidence. Might I be wrong or misinterpreting that evidence? Of course.
So it is possible to evidence the supernatural, it just happens to be subjective evidence. Is this correct?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 12:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by jar, posted 04-04-2012 1:18 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10077
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 416 of 432 (658992)
04-11-2012 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by foreveryoung
04-11-2012 2:49 PM


Re: The Knowledgeable Creationist
What a load of crap but typical of the attitude here.
Pearls before swine.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by foreveryoung, posted 04-11-2012 2:49 PM foreveryoung has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by foreveryoung, posted 04-12-2012 11:31 PM Taq has not replied

  
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