Summations Only

This phrase in bold is one of my pet peeves - it's 'intents and purposes'. Don't know why it drives me so crazy.Sorry for the interruption. Carry on.

You did assert that we cannot study that which is supernatural. I described us studying the Leprechauns teleporting abilities. This would seem to suggest that you deny that the Leprechaun's teleportation abilities can be supernatural.So - Do you agree that we don't know if the Leprechaun's teleportation ability is supernatural or not?

Sorry but it seems that once again you and I will never reach a point of understanding. Yes, but also understand that if it is supernatural, no test or study will tell us anything since there is no way to study the supernatural.

Does god interact with the world? If He/She/It does, can we not, in principle, see those interactions (even if we don't recognize them) and couldn't seeing those interactions also, in principle, tell us something about god?I would consider that studying god, because it would be able to tell us something about god. And if god is supernatural, then studying the natural effects of the supernatural will tell us something about the supernatural. But that's not all we can say. We can say the source is capable of producing a cake that gives off such and such signatures.

Our experimenters sit down and ask the Leprechaun how he teleports. He tells us that he just visualises where he wants to be and then wills it and it happens. We show him an empty room and ask him to teleport. He does. Then later we secretly fill the room with water and ask him to teleport into it again to see if he still can.......And so on and so forth. Observation. Prediction. Experimentation. Etc.Now we still don't know whether his teleporting ability is supernatural or not. But we are indisputably investigating this teleporting ability.Given that we are indisputably studying this ability and given that we both agree that this ability may or may not be supernatural it is nonsensical to say that if it is supernatural then we can't study it.You are spouting contradictory nonsense jar.

I do not know. It seems on a quantum level the very act of observing changes the outcome. It seems reality doesn't want to be pigeon holed.One belief to reconcile this is that there may be a universal observer, this being the mind of God, if you will. Is God supernatural? I would think if God exist it would be natural as rain. We have scientifically shown and explained what rain is and anything you could ever care to know about rain down to the molecular structure, down to the
atomic components, but what of it? Could rain not be a manifestation of this God?Well no. Why would it? Occams razor shows through parsimony there need not be anything more than H20. No plan, no reason, just because is reason enough.If reality is illusory, a projection from a 2D matrix of indelible information that is responsible for our percieved 3D reality, then I'd like to think there is something, like God running the projector.
A googleplex of information being transposed into a sublime movie for the ages.Or it may be nothing. I do not know.

You seem to be engaging in unjustifiable quantum mysticism and conflating the role of the observer in QM with the need for some sort of ultimate consciousness.

What we have are claims, not verified observations. We can play what if all we want. Science focuses on what is. What we can imagine is also irrelevant to what actually is.

I believe that GOD interacts with the world but I don't see a way that we can see those interactions.What we can see are those things that are wholly natural. There is no way to know if what is seen is natural or supernatural. I gave some examples of what I see as supernatural influence and interaction above; GOD influencing the doctor to try one more test before giving up diagnosis or GOD influencing someone to pause before stepping into the road and thus avoiding being hit. In such cases the person is unaware of any influence and there is nothing to show there was influence or interaction.We can study the after effects, the results; the doctor did one more test and found the diagnosis was something manageable or the person did not get run over; but I see no way to study the supernatural parts or that we could learn anything about the supernatural from what we can study. Not really. We can say that the cake has certain characteristic signatures, but that tells us nothing about the source.

Well you and your leprechaun have a good day.

Heh, I do not know where your from, however if you ever came to Texas your head would explode from the exposure to all the colloquialisms and bastardizations of the English language many Texans spew. But your correction is duly noted. Now go bugger yourself.

Sounds good to me. Perhaps I should start a cult. The UQM
Unjustified Quantum Mystics.

Beliefs do not reconcile anything. Beliefs are just a wish of how someone wants reality to be. Could rain not be a manifestation of any entity we make up at the drop of a hat?Like I said above, humans have this idea that they can make something up and then expect reality to conform to it. We are all guilty of doing this from time to time, but with religion it is endemic. For YEC's, the universe just as to be a few thousand years old, and the supernatural just has to exist. Science takes the exact opposite approach. Science molds theories to fit reality, to the best of our ability.The clash between the two approaches is probably seen best in this discussion on how to study the supernatural. The problem starts with the belief that the supernatural must exist, or that a specific phenomenon has to be supernatural. If we travel back in time I am sure that there are many phenomenon that were described as supernatural but are not considered supernatural now.This discussion has even taken the very wrong step of just inventing entities to discuss. At this point, it is just mental masturbation. The very fact that people have to invent supernatural entities in order to even have anything to discuss says all that needs to be said, IMHO.

Could God also be convincing people to step in front of buses, or dissuading doctors from running tests that would save a patient's life? How could you tell?

Yes, GOD could be doing that and as I have been saying, you couldn't tell.