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Author Topic:   The World without Religion
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 112 (26434)
12-12-2002 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by John
12-12-2002 2:44 PM


Apparently, John, you were either unconscious or intermittently conscious. Perhaps something happened that wiped those memories out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by John, posted 12-12-2002 2:44 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by John, posted 12-12-2002 3:09 PM robinrohan has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 112 (26435)
12-12-2002 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by robinrohan
12-12-2002 2:50 PM


quote:
Originally posted by robinrohan:
Apparently, John, you were either unconscious or intermittently conscious. Perhaps something happened that wiped those memories out.
I wasn't sure how you would answer, but there is a problem either way. As it is, it is impossible to determine whether a person or thing is conscious. Hence any arguments that depend on that loose their teeth. You could ask my parents, my sister, or my friends if I was conscious. They would all say yes. You could watch home movies made by my father, and I appear to be conscious in every way that I could apply to you if I were to observe you from a distance. But there is no way to know for sure, even among humans.
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2002 2:50 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2002 4:03 PM John has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 112 (26439)
12-12-2002 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by John
12-12-2002 3:09 PM


[QUOTE]Originally posted by John:
As it is, it is impossible to determine whether a person or thing is conscious.
[/B][/QUOTE]
Except for ourselves of course.
I suppose we could say that an insect might be conscious. I assume not. Are you saying there is no evidence for concluding that a bug is unconscious?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by John, posted 12-12-2002 3:09 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by John, posted 12-12-2002 4:20 PM robinrohan has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 109 of 112 (26441)
12-12-2002 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by robinrohan
12-12-2002 4:03 PM


quote:
Originally posted by robinrohan:
I suppose we could say that an insect might be conscious. I assume not. Are you saying there is no evidence for concluding that a bug is unconscious?
By the means that you are suggesting, yes. I'd say it is impossible to determine if an insect is conscious.
I'm happy to consider something conscious that displays the behaviors associated with consciousness. You, however, seem to be looking for some absolute means to determine consciousness THAT rules out eveything but humans. I don't think such a means exists.
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2002 4:03 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2002 5:31 PM John has replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 112 (26444)
12-12-2002 4:32 PM


Hi all!
Im sorry that I have just interrupted the topic like this but I just wanted to say hi to all, and a thanks aswell.
Here in Sweden the issue about evolution vs creation isn`t nearly as discussed as in the USA and when I confronted my science teacher with questions that I had picked up from Harun Yahyas site, he was clueless.
I thought then that I was on to something and continued to read and get more and more interested in the issue.
Luckily I found this site where I found my arguments wasn`t nearly that ground breaking as I had been conceived to belive and many experienced posters gave me a kick on the right direction.
I hope you are all ok and since the holidays are about to begin I should have the time to now and then drop in to see whats new.
Take care

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 112 (26447)
12-12-2002 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by John
12-12-2002 4:20 PM


I am not trying to rule out everything but humans necessarily. If you want to say chimps are conscious, fine. I have no problem with that. I would be more convinced if they had language.
My point is that consciousness is a threshold and that any consciousness at all is full consciousness.
Is there no way to examine a bug's brain and see if they have the right make-up for consciousness? Is there some attribute of the brain that denotes consciousness?
[This message has been edited by robinrohan, 12-12-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by John, posted 12-12-2002 4:20 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by John, posted 12-12-2002 11:10 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 112 (26464)
12-12-2002 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by robinrohan
12-12-2002 5:31 PM


quote:
Originally posted by robinrohan:
My point is that consciousness is a threshold and that any consciousness at all is full consciousness.
Really, I think you are fighting a loosing battle. Maybe this will interest you, though. It is an anthrologist's conception of the origin of consciousness.
Page Not Found | MIT CogNet
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No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by robinrohan, posted 12-12-2002 5:31 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
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