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Author
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Topic: Christian Pride.
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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Message 106 of 192 (337495)
08-02-2006 6:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 93 by Heathen
08-02-2006 5:26 PM
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Re: back on topic
Not necessarily so Crevo me old flower. I gave an analogy a while back which you might have missed. That of a bike gearbox. You can put it into gear and drive away from God. Or God can put it into neutral and pull you back to him. He puts it into neutral and pulls (you will be saved) or you can kick it back into gear and drive off (you will be lost) You do nothing at all to contribute to your salvation - except not reject it.
if your inaction in this case is a concious decision then you are certainly deciding to let yourself be saved. Your decision results in you being saved. Read the analogy again Mook. God puts your gearbox into neutral. Neutral is a position about which you can do one of two things: nothing or something. If you do nothing then saved you will be. Now you might say "I decided to leave it in neutral and so I saved myself" Fair enough. Except that the reason to do nothing is that you are convinced that nothing is the better option under the circumstances. Something has presented you with a postition you find preferable under the circumstance. The credit - if that is the right word - goes to that which set the circumstances which convinced you and not you for deciding to leave well alone. Being convinced by something is not something to be proud of - what convinced you is what is applauded. Or you can refuse to be convinced by it and snick the lever down a notch. And open that throttle...
You could be forgiven for feeling a little smug for making this decision if you believe it was the right one. Nice tie in with the topic! I took a leaf out of your book above 
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by Heathen, posted 08-02-2006 5:26 PM | | Heathen has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 107 of 192 (337497)
08-02-2006 6:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by nator
08-02-2006 6:22 PM
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schrafinator writes: You may even end up in the hospital, or die from "Jesus poisining". So, when you're in a twelve-step program trying to get away from "Jesus", that's when God puts you into neutral and pulls you back in? 
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:22 PM | | nator has not replied |
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5028 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: 05-07-2004
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Message 108 of 192 (337498)
08-02-2006 6:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 101 by nator
08-02-2006 6:22 PM
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Re: back on topic
quote:
You may even end up in the hospital, or die from "Jesus poisining".
you can always get help at Jesuholics Anonymous. P.S sorry, couldn't help it. Edited by Legend, : added P.S
"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 101 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:22 PM | | nator has not replied |
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5012 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: 04-14-2006
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Message 109 of 192 (337499)
08-02-2006 6:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 105 by Legend
08-02-2006 6:29 PM
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
..atheist priest?? The Pope?  Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 105 by Legend, posted 08-02-2006 6:29 PM | | Legend has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 110 of 192 (337500)
08-02-2006 6:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 106 by iano
08-02-2006 6:32 PM
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iano writes: Or you can refuse to be convinced by it and snick the lever down a notch. And open that throttle... We have a saying around here: You don't change horses in a mud-hole. I suspect that in a mud-hole, neutral is not the option you would choose either.
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 106 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 6:32 PM | | iano has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 111 of 192 (337501)
08-02-2006 6:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by Legend
08-02-2006 6:02 PM
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
strongly recommend you watch their film 'Life of Brian' one of the best satires ever made . It cuts on so many levels I can't watch movies in which there is projectile vomiting. I watched one Python movie where this occurred, and I, as a result, experienced projective vomiting during the movie.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by Legend, posted 08-02-2006 6:02 PM | | Legend has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 112 by RickJB, posted 08-02-2006 6:45 PM | | robinrohan has not replied | | | Message 113 by Legend, posted 08-02-2006 6:46 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5012 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: 04-14-2006
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
No projectile vomiting in 'Life of Brian' that I remember. But there's lots of crucifiction. And a spaceship. "He's not the messiah! He's a very naughty boy!"
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 111 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:41 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by nator, posted 08-02-2006 6:58 PM | | RickJB has not replied |
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Legend
Member (Idle past 5028 days) Posts: 1226 From: Wales, UK Joined: 05-07-2004
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
robinrohan writes: I can't watch movies in which there is projectile vomiting. I watched one Python movie where this occurred, and I, as a result, experienced projective vomiting during the movie. not a fan of 'The Exorcist' then.
"In life, you have to face that some days you'll be the pigeon and some days you'll be the statue."
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RickJB
Member (Idle past 5012 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: 04-14-2006
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Message 114 of 192 (337509)
08-02-2006 6:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Legend
08-02-2006 6:46 PM
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
Just remembered these lines from 'Life of Brian'.
Brian: But I'm not the Messiah. Disciple: I say you are, lord, and I should know... I've followed a few. Heh. Great film.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Legend, posted 08-02-2006 6:46 PM | | Legend has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 115 of 192 (337511)
08-02-2006 6:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Legend
08-02-2006 6:46 PM
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
not a fan of 'The Exorcist' then. I love the Exorcist, but I turn my head at that point.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Legend, posted 08-02-2006 6:46 PM | | Legend has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 116 by Heathen, posted 08-02-2006 6:57 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1305 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: 09-20-2005
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
robinrohan writes: I love the Exorcist, but I turn my head at that point.
badum...tish! heh
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 115 by robinrohan, posted 08-02-2006 6:51 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 117 of 192 (337517)
08-02-2006 6:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by RickJB
08-02-2006 6:45 PM
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Re: You've all got to work it out for yourselves
The gourd! The holy gourd!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by RickJB, posted 08-02-2006 6:45 PM | | RickJB has not replied |
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Heathen
Member (Idle past 1305 days) Posts: 1067 From: Brizzle Joined: 09-20-2005
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Message 118 of 192 (337522)
08-02-2006 7:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 106 by iano
08-02-2006 6:32 PM
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Re: back on topic
iano writes: The credit - if that is the right word - goes to that which set the circumstances which convinced you and not you for deciding to leave well alone. so... If a mugger prowls a street regularly, and I decide not to travel that street to avoid being mugged, I have the mugger to thank for making me avoid that street and thus not being mugged? can you not see how ridiculous that is? regardless, you surely must accept that it is you who ultimately makes the decision whether or not to reject God, thus You most certainly have some responsibility for your own salvation Edited by Creavolution, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 106 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 6:32 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 119 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 7:17 PM | | Heathen has replied |
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iano
Member (Idle past 1962 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: 07-27-2005
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Message 119 of 192 (337528)
08-02-2006 7:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 118 by Heathen
08-02-2006 7:06 PM
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Re: back on topic
so... If a mugger prowls a street regularly, and I decide not to travel that street to avoid being mugged, I have the mugger to thank for making me avoid that street and thus not being mugged? Good analogy if you worry not about its glass half empty approach. I took a more..er..neutral stance myself (the secret of quite brillant analogy formation even if I say so myself)
can you not see how ridiculous that is? Why? What else made you not walk down that street if not him?
regardless, you surely must accept that it is you who ultimately makes the decision whether or not to reject God, thus You most certainly have some responsibility for your own salvation Thing is, the things that get presented don't have "God" stamped on them so you don't know (in an intellectual sense) that is God you are rejecting. It happens on another level. The heart if you will. For example: I considered whether to take a particular job once. All rational like, I sat down and made a list. Two in fact. Pro's and Cons of this job. I wrote every pro and con I could think of and then applied an approximate weighting to each item. I figured that it would suffer from some subjectivity but by sheer weight of numbers I would get a god (by edit  ops! Honest!) enough approximation The pro's ran to 5 lines. The cons to a page and a half. I took the job. My heart was right - my intellect wrong. You can make a decision for God if you do not know it is God you are deciding for? Can you? Edited by iano, : No reason given. Edited by iano, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 118 by Heathen, posted 08-02-2006 7:06 PM | | Heathen has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 146 by Heathen, posted 08-03-2006 10:15 AM | | iano has replied |
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Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5894 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 01-09-2002
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Message 120 of 192 (337541)
08-02-2006 7:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 83 by iano
08-02-2006 3:18 PM
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Pride Before the Fall
So. If a particular creator exists then "special" "privileged" and part of something "exclusive" the person is who sits under the umbrella of that creator is entitled to feel [snip] . [snip] All that has to be the case to avoid the charge of pride and smugness is for the position to be a true one. If true then you would I hope agree that special and privileged the person is. And if it is true and this is known to the person - then there is no harm in saying so. The offence taken, if taken, is a matter for the offendee. One can hardly go around pretending that all views have merit when they patently know they have not. That would be telling fibs. What? You mean if you “know” you’re right that excuses the insufferable smugness? The self-patting-on-the-back? The toddler’s “I’m better than you are, nyah, nyah, nyah” of the True Christian™? Especially since the “truth” of your position, as they say in court, “is not in evidence”? After all, David Berkowitz “knew” that God had told him to murder all those people; Betty and Barney Hill “knew” they had been abducted by aliens for bizarre medical experiments; and the Heaven’s Gate cult “knew” that if they committed suicide en masse their souls would ride on a space ship following the Halle-Bopp comet. Lots of people “know” things that, not to put too fine a point on it, are fallacious. And then to consider yourself somehow “special and privileged” because of what you think you “know” is true, strikes me as the height of folly. I have a feeling you’re missing some key concept in Christianity somewhere, Ian. Of course, what do I know? I’m one of those lowly worms you feel able to legitimately look down your nose at. Pride, thy name is . Edited by Quetzal, : db code issues
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 3:18 PM | | iano has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 121 by iano, posted 08-02-2006 8:03 PM | | Quetzal has replied | | | Message 128 by nator, posted 08-03-2006 6:53 AM | | Quetzal has not replied |
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