Here be my problem with "God"

We get into heaven by God's grace alone. Jesus died for us and forgave us all our sins. It's not good deeds that get us into heaven. It's believing in His sacrifice for us. Of course, it follows that we will follow His teachings and perform good deeds in His name if we truly believe. But that's what gets us there, our believing, not our good deeds!

Will the bad deeds keep you out, even if you believe?Or do you believe that no true believer is capable of bad deeds? In which case, it's still deeds defining belief, isn't it?

God loves us whether we love Him or not. If bad deeds kept us out, no one, repeat NO ONE, would ever get in. We're all guilty of sin in some degree. Even the best church-goers and good-deed-doers struggle with sin. It's a daily, moment to moment choice we make, because we do have sinful natures. A person who does believe will strive the harder to do what is right. The wonderful thing about Jesus is that just a single instance of repentance will earn redemption from a lifetime of sin.

Except for me. Just so you know. Oh? You disagree? Perhaps you'd care to prove otherwise, then? I guess I'm not comfortable with that moral calculus. I'd offends my moral sensibilities to share heaven with Hitler.I'll take my chances in hell with the rest of the clean-livin' atheists, thank you very much. I don't think this god of yours is very moral, anyway.

To which crashfrog replies To which the Bible replies To which crashfrog will probably reply,
"I don't trust the source" and then I will ask him what source he trusts.

Actually what I'll say is that the Bible was written 2000 years before I was born. How could they have known about my sinless life? Their mistake is only natural.

The human authors did not know you, but I believe that the human authors were inspired by a divine source that does in fact know you.
So I will ask you again: What source do you trust?[This message has been edited by Phatboy, 02-16-2004]

Oh. Well, see, I don't. I would guess that the fact that the authors were wrong about so many things would kind of be evidence that they were only human. Source of what? Information about what I've done in my life? How about "myself"?

My last question to crashfrog was the subtitle. I assert that the authors of the Bible, although human and fallible, derived their information from a divine source.
Crashfrog, I have read all of the pages that trash the Bible as being full of contradictions! The authors of those pages take bits and pieces of scriptures out of context and attempt to twist the credibility of the overall message. I will challenge you, Crashfrog on the New Testament. Hit me up with one twisted scripture at a time and I will untwist it and give it back to you! I am not God, but I will have to trust Him on this one! Are you game?

Hmmm. A thought has occurred to me, with all this stuff about sin and whatnot - does any source other than the bible say that humans are inherently sinful?That always annoyed me about Christianity - it sounds so much like a device for controlling people's behaviour, like "don't sin or you won't get into heaven". I say that humans are equally predisposed to be loving and caring.

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"How can I believe in God? I answer to a higher power than him."

In my opinion and belief, we all are sinners. Sin by definition is any thought that exalts itself above the living God. Kinda like your last quote,there Irish! You say that humans are equally predisposed to be loving and caring. Let me ask you something about the concept of equal. If I have a clear glass of water and a bottle of ink and I place one drop of ink in the water, is the water clear? The concept "equally predisposed" suggests that humans have a predisposition, by definition. I would assert that despite the many good things that we do, we have an essential predisposition to sin.

If the bible was truly divine, you wouldn't have to untwist it. Don't forget I'm an english major. I understand as well as you the springyness of words, and how you can bend their meanings to smooth out any rough spots.But if the Bible was literally the word of God, you wouldn't have to do so. It would already be smooth.I'm not going to play a game where you have a 2000-year head start in uncrossing the wires. Sorry.

Hmmm. I never read anything that said Hitler had accepted Jesus. His actions in life definitely did not point to that.I once heard an analogy that likened both heaven and hell to a banquet table. God has provided us with this banquet table; it has no head, it goes on forever in two directions. Seated on either side of the table are all the people who have ever lived and died. Those who have accepted God's forgiveness partake of the heavenly feast of everlasting life with gusto. Those who have not just sit there with unbending arms. They can see the food, touch the food, smell the food, but can never put it to their lips to partake of it because they have never accepted God's grace. God did His part to provide the feast, but the sinners have not done theirs to partake of it. All they need to do is bend!Yeah, I think Hitler is there, too, but I doubt he is eating of the food of eternal life.

The fundamentalists have us on this one, too. It's not smooth for a reason: To get us to study the Bible for all our lives (seek) and still not fully learn everything! And, of course, who are you to proclaim you know what God intended by including/excluding/obfuscating verses? The puzzling thing to me is that some people will put a lot of faith into third party testimony that was written many years (up to 60?) after the event by unconfirmed authors. And, on the basis of that, believe what is written over evidence to the contrary. In the half full half empty paradigm, this is either called "strong faith" or "blind faith", depending on whom you ask.

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Sin by definition is any thought that exalts itself above the living God. Kinda like your last quote,there Irish!

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What, my sig?Honestly, I couldn't care less. I don't worship the Christian god, so whether he or his followers think I'm a sinner means very little to me. As far as I'm concerned, sin is just something made up by Christianity - part of the whole controlling thing. I don't think that there's any reason to assume that people are essentially bad other than the fact that the bible says so.I don't really mean that people have a predisposition - just that if you are to assume that people are fundamentally bad, it is equally valid to assume that they are fundamentally good, and only the fact that bible has something to say on the matter is influencing which assumption you choose to make.The Rock Hound