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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 133 (425952)
10-04-2007 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
10-04-2007 4:02 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
Although some believe that while on earth, Jesus was only human.

This is off topic, but "only humans" can't walk on water and raise people from the dead.


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 47 of 133 (425953)
10-04-2007 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:17 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
Peter walked on water.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:17 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:23 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 48 of 133 (425954)
10-04-2007 4:18 PM


On Masons and christians
Just to clear up a few discrepancies in terminology:

There are two kinds of masons/Masons:

  1. The Mason who is a member of a club, who goes to meetings, performs rituals, etc.

  2. The mason who works with bricks and mortar.

A Mason isn't necessarily a mason and a mason isn't necessarily a Mason.

A Mason has no business telling a mason, "You're No True Mason," and a mason has no business telling a Mason, "You're no true mason."

-------------

Similarly, there are Christians who belong to a chapter of the Christian club. One Christian has no business telling another Christian that his chapter is unaccredited.

There are also christians who work with the bricks and mortar of christianity on a daily basis.

Christians have no business telling christians that they're No True Christians, even if they're not official members of the club. And christians have no business telling Christians that they're no true christians even if they don't work with the bricks and mortar of christianity.

-------------

(To further confuse the issue, I capitalize both types of Christian out of respect.)


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 49 of 133 (425957)
10-04-2007 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
10-04-2007 4:09 PM


Re: On the way
But in every Christian Church I have even attended, the rules, the "I believes", are recited at every service.

Someone could lie about their beliefs to get into the club. If they don't really believe the bylaws then they're not really a Christian, no matter if the club lets them in or not.

Sorry but being a follower of Christ, what ever that means, that has NOTHING to do with being a Christian.

It means that you try to live your life as he prescribed and that you believe in him. And that has EVERYTHING to do with being a Christian.

You even admit in that very same paragraph that "Sure, that makes you a christian, by defintion of being in the club".

Yeah, by definition of being in the club. But that is not how a True Christian is defined.

Sorry, but if you are in the club by definition you are a True Christian.

I don't think so.


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Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 14774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 50 of 133 (425958)
10-04-2007 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:10 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

Additional qualifiers don't make you non-christian. Its the lack of the Christian qualifier that makes you non-christian.

It's the "Christian qualifier" that we're trying to discover in this thread. You're treating your own assumptions as a given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:10 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 133 (425959)
10-04-2007 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by jar
10-04-2007 4:18 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
Peter walked on water.

Touché.

But did he raise somebody from the dead?


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 Message 47 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 4:18 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 4:30 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 59 by Brian, posted 10-04-2007 4:45 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 133 (425960)
10-04-2007 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
10-04-2007 4:22 PM


It's the "Christian qualifier" that we're trying to discover in this thread.

Yes, we are. So what are they?

I'd say they are, very simply, believing and following Jesus.

You're treating your own assumptions as a given.

More like I'm treating my opinions as correct :D


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jar
Member
Posts: 30504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 53 of 133 (425961)
10-04-2007 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:21 PM


Re: On the way
Someone could lie about their beliefs to get into the club. If they don't really believe the bylaws then they're not really a Christian, no matter if the club lets them in or not.

As long as they consistently lie about the bylaws, they are still members and so Christians.

It means that you try to live your life as he prescribed and that you believe in him. And that has EVERYTHING to do with being a Christian.

It still has NOTHING to do with being a "Christian".

Yeah, by definition of being in the club. But that is not how a True Christian is defined.

Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy rears its head.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:21 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:42 PM jar has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30504
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 54 of 133 (425962)
10-04-2007 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
But did he raise somebody from the dead?

Jesus said that the Apostles would do such miracles. And in addition, Jesus never claimed that he did the miracles but rather God working through him.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:23 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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ringo
Member
Posts: 14774
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 55 of 133 (425963)
10-04-2007 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:26 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

I'd say they are, very simply, believing and following Jesus.

Suppose you're driving down the highway (having missed the bus to New Jersey) and a police officer flags you down and tells you the road is closed ahead. There's a bridge out. You have to take a detour.

You say, "Okay, I believe you," and you continue driving down the road, repeating to yourself, "Yup, I sure do believe that police officer," until you go sailing into the Delaware River.

Following a belief means doing something about it, not just "believing" it.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:26 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:43 PM ringo has responded

  
petrophysics1
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 133 (425965)
10-04-2007 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Phat
10-04-2007 4:02 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
Phat,

I would describe a Christian as someone who believes the Old Roman Creed. This is from the second century and would be the earliest compiled statement of faith.(What you needed to believe to be a Christian then, NOT what you need to believe to be a Christian now, according to some people)

The Old Roman Creed
I believe in God the Father Almighty. And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord, who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary; crucified under Pontius Pilate and buried; the third day he rose from the dead; he ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father, from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead. And in the Holy Spirit; the holy Church; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the flesh

Note that this creed says NOT a single thing about scripture or it being literally correct or true or it being "the word of God". Not surprising since The Old Roman Creed predates the "bible" by about 150 years, but I would think if they thought old books important they would have mentioned them in a statement of faith.

Early Christians had no "bible" but they were still Christians.

P.S. Does this creed say Jesus Christ= God, or does it say Jesus Christ= the only son of God?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Phat, posted 10-04-2007 4:02 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:47 PM petrophysics1 has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 133 (425967)
10-04-2007 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
10-04-2007 4:28 PM


Re: On the way
It means that you try to live your life as he prescribed and that you believe in him. And that has EVERYTHING to do with being a Christian.

It still has NOTHING to do with being a "Christian".

Define "Christian".

Wait, let me guess: "Christian" = a person who is in a Christian club.

Well, this thread is about what a True Christian is. Not what a Club Christian is. They are different things.

Yeah, by definition of being in the club. But that is not how a True Christian is defined.

Ah, the No True Scotsman fallacy rears its head.

So what makes a True Christian? Believing the Creed, right? Not just being a part of the club (which doesn't require actually believing the creed).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 4:28 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 4:48 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 133 (425969)
10-04-2007 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by ringo
10-04-2007 4:33 PM


Following a belief means doing something about it, not just "believing" it.

Yeah, that's why I typed believing AND following Jesus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 4:33 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by ringo, posted 10-04-2007 4:47 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 2791 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 59 of 133 (425970)
10-04-2007 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by New Cat's Eye
10-04-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
But did he raise somebody from the dead?

Paul did.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-04-2007 4:23 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 133 (425971)
10-04-2007 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by petrophysics1
10-04-2007 4:41 PM


Re: Just joining...man this thread moves quick!
I would describe a Christian as someone who believes the Old Roman Creed.

That works for me.

P.S. Does this creed say Jesus Christ= God, or does it say Jesus Christ= the only son of God?

What's that part about being the Lord mean?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by petrophysics1, posted 10-04-2007 4:41 PM petrophysics1 has responded

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