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Author Topic:   Do animals have an Afterlife?
Marc
Junior Member (Idle past 5826 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 04-09-2008


Message 1 of 16 (462854)
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


DO animals have an afterlife? Lot of people say they do and a lot say they don't. But for those who say they don't, how do you know? Do they have souls? The bible never said that an animal has no soul. But it did say a few times that animal DO have SOULS. What are your thinking of it?
I'm sorry if this topic was already made or if this topic is not allowed. But I have pets and I really want to see them again in heaven if I go. I have 2 dogs, a rat, an iguana and a alligator lizard. And each one of them shows love and emotions. And to me they do have souls.
Edited by Marc, : No reason given.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Fixed punctuation formatting and a few other things. Broke message into two paragraphs.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-10-2008 12:05 AM Marc has not replied
 Message 3 by Admin, posted 04-10-2008 8:00 AM Marc has not replied
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 04-11-2008 7:36 AM Marc has replied
 Message 8 by Straggler, posted 04-13-2008 2:10 PM Marc has not replied
 Message 9 by bluegenes, posted 04-14-2008 6:44 AM Marc has not replied
 Message 16 by GDR, posted 04-18-2008 7:30 PM Marc has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 16 (462858)
04-10-2008 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Marc
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


Pretty luke warm on this one
Seems like a big chunk of philosophical silliness to me.
I'll let the other admins have their opinions on this one. One thing you should do right now is go back and edit message one to put a " " between such characters as ".", ",", and "?" and the following letter. There are also a few other glitches that could be fixed via edit.
Adminnemooseus
Added by edit:
...put a " " between such characters as ".", ",", and "?" and the following letter.
Translation: Periods, commas, and question marks should have a space after them. It's important for separating the sentences.
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Changed a "there" to "their" (D'oh).
Edited by Adminnemooseus, : See above "Added by edit".

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 3 of 16 (462872)
04-10-2008 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Marc
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


I strongly agree with Adminnemooseus about the spacing/punctuation, but I otherwise like the topic. Fix it up and I'll release it to [forum=-6].

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 4 of 16 (462986)
04-11-2008 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Marc
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


I see you edited your message, but it still contains improper spacing around punctuation. Do you need help?

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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 Message 1 by Marc, posted 04-09-2008 11:36 PM Marc has replied

Replies to this message:
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Marc
Junior Member (Idle past 5826 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 04-09-2008


Message 5 of 16 (463164)
04-12-2008 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
04-11-2008 7:36 AM


yes please.

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Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 6 of 16 (463169)
04-12-2008 5:18 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Marc
04-12-2008 5:01 PM


Message 1 fixed up
I'll leave any promotion to Admin.
Adminnemooseus

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 7 of 16 (463214)
04-13-2008 9:09 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 8 of 16 (463225)
04-13-2008 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Marc
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


What Counts as an Animal?
Hiya Marc. Welcome to EvC
DO animals have an afterlife?
What do you include or exclude with the term animal? Do insects have souls? Do fish? Do slugs and snails have an afterlife?
Would you expect a minimum level of intelligence/consciouness for something to warrant an afterlife? On what basis do you make this conclusion (if this is indeed what you have concluded)?
Personally I don't think there is an afterlife at all (for animals or humans) but I was wondering what you thought and how much you had considered your current conclusion?

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Replies to this message:
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2477 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 9 of 16 (463245)
04-14-2008 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Marc
04-09-2008 11:36 PM


Convert to Animism
Marc writes:
DO animals have an afterlife?
I think you should consider giving up your Christianity and converting to Animism.
These early religions did not separate man from other animals in the way that the later religions tend to. In a way, they are more in keeping with modern science, which shows us to be very much a part of the animal kingdom, and related to all other life forms.
So, if we have eternal souls (and it's a big "if") then there's no reason why your pets shouldn't also have them.

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teen4christ
Member (Idle past 5799 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 10 of 16 (463254)
04-14-2008 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Straggler
04-13-2008 2:10 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
Straggler writes
quote:
What do you include or exclude with the term animal? Do insects have souls? Do fish? Do slugs and snails have an afterlife?
Would you expect a minimum level of intelligence/consciouness for something to warrant an afterlife? On what basis do you make this conclusion (if this is indeed what you have concluded)?
You really ought to apply the word "soul" to the context of what Marc was talking about. He didn't mean the soul in the sense of consciousness measured by human conception of intelligence. He meant the soul as the essence, or the being, of an animal that remains in existence even after the physical death. Doesn't really matter how smart or dumb they are. I really don't think Marc intended this to be a deep philosophical analysis of what constitutes a soul.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Straggler, posted 04-14-2008 5:36 PM teen4christ has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 11 of 16 (463259)
04-14-2008 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by teen4christ
04-14-2008 12:02 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
You really ought to apply the word "soul" to the context of what Marc was talking about. He didn't mean the soul in the sense of consciousness measured by human conception of intelligence. He meant the soul as the essence, or the being, of an animal that remains in existence even after the physical death. Doesn't really matter how smart or dumb they are. I really don't think Marc intended this to be a deep philosophical analysis of what constitutes a soul.
Well I wasn't sure what directio he did intend the discussion to be taken in and I am not sure you do either.
If we are considering an afterlife for animals then the question as to what is meant by 'animal' seems fair enough.
If someone has concluded that animals do have an afterlife - Do monkeys have an afterlife? rats? snakes? slugs? Is the animal afterlife full of dinosaurs? grasshoppers? fish? tadpoles?
What exactly is included in the animal afterlife and what is not? What basis is this decided upon?
This is all I am essentially asking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by teen4christ, posted 04-14-2008 12:02 PM teen4christ has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by teen4christ, posted 04-14-2008 5:53 PM Straggler has replied

  
teen4christ
Member (Idle past 5799 days)
Posts: 238
Joined: 01-15-2008


Message 12 of 16 (463263)
04-14-2008 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Straggler
04-14-2008 5:36 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
Straggler writes
quote:
Well I wasn't sure what directio he did intend the discussion to be taken in and I am not sure you do either.
Actually, I have a pretty good idea what he intended. His OP was just a rhetorical question. Yes, you could give an answer to a rhetorical question, but usually you don't go that deep into it.
quote:
If we are considering an afterlife for animals then the question as to what is meant by 'animal' seems fair enough.
Anything that has brainwaves?
quote:
If someone has concluded that animals do have an afterlife - Do monkeys have an afterlife? rats? snakes? slugs? Is the animal afterlife full of dinosaurs? grasshoppers? fish? tadpoles?
I don't know about you, but I'd like to see a few dinos after I die. I've always wondered what they really looked like.
quote:
What exactly is included in the animal afterlife and what is not? What basis is this decided upon?
What you are doing is you're taking a rhetorical question and apply philosophy 305 in answering it.
My guess is Marc is very young, probably around 7-9 or so.
quote:
This is all I am essentially asking.
If I were to come to you and ask at what acceleration do we fall to Earth, you simply don't try to answer my question that includes relativity. After all, the speed of the Earth increases as we get nearer to the sun and decreases as we get further away from the sun. Instead, you try to give a straight forward answer. Now, imagine if I was 10. Do you really want to give me a lecture on Einsteinian physics?

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Replies to this message:
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Marc
Junior Member (Idle past 5826 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 04-09-2008


Message 13 of 16 (463274)
04-14-2008 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by teen4christ
04-14-2008 5:53 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
Naa im not 7 or 9,If you consider 15 as young the yeah.I just want to know a straight answer if animals have an afterlife.I've read the bible and I remember a verse in the bible saying that Man and the lesser creatures will also rise and enjoy his eternal kingdom.Somthing like that.I'll have to look it up.
Found it!
Psalm 145:-9-10,13,15-21 AMP
Though all creatures are subject to man's cruelty, God loves all His creation and has made plans for all His children and the lesser creatures to enjoy His eternal Kingdom.
Romans 8:19(KJV)
The lesser creatures await Christ's return to redeem the sons of God so they, too, will be released from physical death to eternal life.
Edited by Marc, : Added a few sentences.......

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Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 14 of 16 (463359)
04-15-2008 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Marc
04-14-2008 10:21 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
Here is a link to Psalm 145 (KJV), which doesn't really say anything like what the AMP you quoted says.
And this is Romans 8:19 (KJV):
quote:
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Neither one of these agrees with the AMP translations you've given. Therefore, it's only your judgment as to which translation is more authoritative that will help you make your choice. Either way, though, you're going to have to accept that it is only your judgment, and not necessarily the truth--take it on faith, if you will. But, you can't actually be certain that it's true until you've died and do or don't see platypuses and Thylacosmiluses in heaven with you.

I'm Thylacosmilus.
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 15 of 16 (463362)
04-15-2008 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by teen4christ
04-14-2008 5:53 PM


Re: What Counts as an Animal?
You are reading far too much into my question.
All I am trying to do is get Marc to think about what he actually means when he says that animals have an afterlife.
What sort of answer do you think would be appropriate?
PS - I too like the idea of an afterlife full of dinosaurs and other extinct creatures. If I were to believe in things because I like the idea of them I would definitely believe in just that.

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