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Author | Topic: What specific evidence would people require to believe in God's existence? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
georgeculolias Junior Member (Idle past 6086 days) Posts: 14 Joined: |
I'd like to answer, from my own experience, this part of the question, "The people who ask for evidence are in a position to ask why their requests are denied." I did exactly what you are talking about, I asked for evidence of Gods existence, after I opened my mind to the possibility that there was a God. He did give me evidence of his existence; of course I could doubt the evidence. It was up to me to believe the evidence I was given or to doubt it. There will never be proof either way, as that takes away freewill and choice. By believing what I was shown and having faith, my life has improved and I'm happier. To me that is evidence in itself but to a doubter that means nothing.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
georgeculolias writes: I asked for evidence of Gods existence, after I opened my mind to the possibility that there was a God. You're misrepresenting people very badly here. I, for one, have never, ever, ever closed my mind to the possibility that there is a God. I have lived much of my life with the virtual certainty that there is a God. That has nothing to do with the topic. Even people who do firmly believe in God can be interested in evidence.
He did give me evidence of his existence; of course I could doubt the evidence. And of course you should doubt any evidence. All evidence must be tested.
There will never be proof either way, as that takes away freewill and choice. Nonsense. I have proof that the government and the police force exist, yet I still have free will to choose whether or not I obey them.
By believing what I was shown and having faith, my life has improved and I'm happier. To me that is evidence in itself but to a doubter that means nothing. I'm much happier as a doubter than I ever was as a blind believer. You'll find it's the blind believers who are in constant fear that their beliefs will be shattered. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
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the cookie monster Junior Member (Idle past 6086 days) Posts: 2 From: BETHLEHEM, US Joined: |
how about any evidence at all? to my knowledge there is no reason to believe in god. religion itself was devised from early forms of man attempting to explain things they didnt understand. i dont know how anyone can believe in god anymore. its outdated. you're probably just afraid.
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georgeculolias Junior Member (Idle past 6086 days) Posts: 14 Joined: |
Is the existence of life possible evidence that there MIGHT be a God? It's not proof, as some doubters can and do choose to believe that all of nature's intricacies and even their own lives are derived from nothing and were only a coincidence of luck. Some doubters believe everything just happened and still happens for no rhyme or reason. But could this same doubter CHOOSE to believe that all this intricacy, beauty and so many other things we don't understand in this world might actually be evidence that there is something else at work? My question is not whether it is or isn't evidence of God's existence. My question only asks if it COULD be evidence that their is something else at work. If it could, doesn't that put US in the position of CHOOSEING between faith or doubt?
Edited by georgeculolias, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Is the existence of life evidence that there MIGHT be a God? Nope.
But could this same doubter CHOOSE to believe that all this intricacy, beauty and so many other things we don't understand in this world might actually be evidence that there is something else at work? Possibly, but certainly it is not very robust evidence of God.
My question only asks, could it be evidence, if a person wanted to choose that position and if it could, doesn't that put US in the position of CHOOSEING faith or doubt? No. Doubt and Faith are unrelated. Even those of us with Faith also have doubt. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Taz Member (Idle past 3312 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
geor writes:
Is the existence of engineering flukes evidence of gremblins?
Is the existence of life evidence that there MIGHT be a God? It's not proof, as a doubter can and does choose to believe that all of nature's intricacies and even his own life are derived from nothing and were only a coincidence.
This is an outright lie. If anything, doubters like myself are more humble and thus realize that there are much we can try to learn from life and nature. We don't pretend to invoke a "goddunit" as an explanation everytime we hit an intellectual wall.
But could this same doubter CHOOSE to believe that all this intricacy, beauty and so many other things we don't understand in this world might actually be evidence that there is something else at work?
I don't know.
My question is not whether it is or isn't evidence of God's existence. My question only asks, could it be evidence, if a person wanted to choose that position and if it could, doesn't that put US in the position of CHOOSEING faith or doubt?
Could you rephrase the question so it's easier for us to read and interpret? Hint: don't use commas in random places. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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pbee Member (Idle past 6048 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote:In all fairness, unless we are dealing with someone with knowledge preceding our own human limitations, then we will have opinions, conclusions and reasoning. Granted we can use the scriptures to back our claims however, but as for God, he never addressed the matter directly, beyond saying that He would allow mankind to continue independently until the point of no return. quote:One can only guess at this stage. However, how can we ever know such things. Joe says he found the Lord and Jerry says he was forsaken. Can we offer anything other than apologetics to that effect? quote:When Jesus was on earth, he offered salvation to those seeking and openly rebuked those who knowingly criticized him. When Jesus, openly praised his Father for providing for those in need, and for withholding from the undeserving ones. He implied that those with wrongful motives were undeserving of God's divine guidance and enlightenment. However, this does not mean that those have lost all hope of redemption. I could also mean that they were not in accordance with God's standards to receive help at that time. To this effect, we have very little information to expand on the implications of Gods divine assistance. Although the bible speaks of unforgivable sins.(Judas, Pharisee's, Satan, Adam and Eve) There has been little in way of the implications which would disqualify one for divine guidance under the new covenant. The end result, is that the ramifications for receiving help would most likely remain limited to the highest authority.
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pelican Member (Idle past 5006 days) Posts: 781 From: australia Joined: |
Yes I believe "life' is possibly evidence of a creator. But is life there for choosing between faith and doubt? What if the creator created life for a different reason? What if life isn't to choose but to experience what one has chosen?
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Ringo,to a non active poster from long long ago writes: Since you concede that we are not accountable to God, maybe you'll concede also that He is accountable to us, in a way. If He wanted us to believe in His existence, the onus would be on Him to convince us, to produce evidence that is satisfactory to us. Which way are you currently heading on that two way road? Have you picked up any strange hitch-hikers that looked in any way angelic?
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The hitchhiker is me. Which way are you currently heading on that two way road? Have you picked up any strange hitch-hikers that looked in any way angelic? I do stand by the statement that if God wanted us to believe in Him he'd give us evidence of His existence. The idea that He "wants us to have faith" is just silly.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2126 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
I've never understood how God could expect His creatures to pick the one true religion by faith - it strikes me as a sloppy way to run a universe. Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle |
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh good grief, these discussions here are so irrelevant. We DO have evidence, tons of evidence, it's just that you all find ways of debunking and discrediting it. It's on YOU then, not on God. He gave us tons of evidence as recorded in His word, I mean it's chock full of evidence and even in its very existence it is evidence.
You all prefer to think faith is just some kind of airyfairy belief in absolutely nothing, but no, MY faith is in what God has revealed to us in His word. You are all "without excuse" as scripture says. He's done what you want Him to do, He's provided the evidence you demand. Too bad you insist on being blind to it. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
He gave us tons of evidence as recorded in His word, I mean it's chock full of evidence and even in its very existence it is evidence Neat. So you agree the Rigveda and Avesta.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
So you agree the Rigveda and Avesta. What makes you think these writings are His word? Look at the evidence and compare it to the Bible.
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Well, they are about a thousand years older than any bible and even in their very existence they are evidence.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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