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Author
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Topic: Why is Faith a Virtue?
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: Once Again
For those who believe, please, take one second and imagine that what you believe is false. Should this injunction apply just to belief in God, or to other types of belief? Suppose we believe in a certain moral code. Should we "take one second and imagine that what we believe is false"? Suppose one of the doctrines of our code is the idea that racism is evil. Should we take one second and imagine that what we believe is false?
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Why do religious beliefs, or faith, get a pass when everything else in life is held to a higher standard? Not "everything else in life" is "held to a higher standard." Moral codes, for example, are not held to a higher standard. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Chief Infidel, posted 07-22-2006 6:53 PM | | Chief Infidel has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 168 of 294 (335096)
07-25-2006 6:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 167 by RickJB
07-25-2006 6:16 AM
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Re: Once Again
Again, this is what anthropologists and psychologists do. Also historians, biographers, writers etc.. They do? They think to themselves, "Maybe racism is not evil after all. Maybe it's good"?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 167 by RickJB, posted 07-25-2006 6:16 AM | | RickJB has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 169 by RickJB, posted 07-25-2006 7:13 AM | | robinrohan has replied | | | Message 181 by lfen, posted 07-25-2006 11:52 AM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 170 of 294 (335115)
07-25-2006 8:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 169 by RickJB
07-25-2006 7:13 AM
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Re: Once Again
No, you're equating empathy with sympathy. I thought you were talking about evidence or the lack thereof.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by RickJB, posted 07-25-2006 7:13 AM | | RickJB has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
My biggest issue is when people take their personal belief as objective truth Non-believers do that with secular morals too--or at least they appear to. They are sometimes mighty passionate. ABE: In fact, I would say that moralism is a secular religion. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 252 of 294 (335796)
07-27-2006 4:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 248 by jar
07-27-2006 4:28 PM
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Re: How can you say that with a straight face Robin?
After all the threads where almost Everyone was telling you that morals are subjective you can make a claim like that? Amazing. I know that's what they say, but they don't act that way. They are constantly getting on their moral highhorse.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 248 by jar, posted 07-27-2006 4:28 PM | | jar has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 255 of 294 (335804)
07-27-2006 5:09 PM
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Reply to: Message 253 by Faith
07-27-2006 4:38 PM
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Re: How can you say that with a straight face Robin?
Nevertheless secular and especially leftist moralism is pronounced as if it were dogma from on high. You have your dogma and they have theirs. I just wish they would admit it.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 253 by Faith, posted 07-27-2006 4:38 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Re: BACK TO TOPIC, WHY IS FAITH A VIRTUE?
Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in your faith? Is there anything that could convince you that you are wrong in YOUR faith--I mean your moral faith, whatever it is. I'm sure there's plenty of it.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 260 of 294 (335843)
07-27-2006 7:08 PM
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Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
Not Faith. Trust. Statistically, if I go to the doctor regularly, chances are that I will catch problems, should they arise, early and be able to have them taken care of in a way that will not hinder my life and will preserve my health and longevity. I don't like going to the doctor at all. But I like being healthy, feeling great every day, and I want to keep doing so for as long as possible. I also have family. I know they want me to live a long and healthy life, so I also go because of them. That is not quite the point. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I've always been irresponsible. No point in changing now! --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why not? I don't feel like it. But here's the main point. Your idea contains an implied moral--"Thou shalt be responsible"--and I'm sure you realize that all moral rules are subjective. So let's examine the truth-value of your opinion. Being subjective, it has two possibilities as regards truth-value. 1. Your implication that one should be responsible in the sense of maintaining one's health means that you really think one should be responsible or you don't. Let's say you really think that. 2. Your implication that one should be responsible in the sense of maintaining one's health is either true or false generally, apart from whether you really think it or not. What evidence do you have for this moral dictum? You have none, since subjective evidence doesn't count. So here we get to my point that faith is a virtue. You gotta believe!
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 262 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:27 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 263 of 294 (335850)
07-27-2006 7:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 262 by nator
07-27-2006 7:27 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
One should be responsible with taking care of one's health because the (statiscically-based) consequences of doing otherwise will likely affect others in a detrimental way, and these negative consequences are preventable. Why should I care?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 262 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:27 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 264 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:33 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 265 of 294 (335852)
07-27-2006 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 264 by nator
07-27-2006 7:33 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
But then I'd have to suspect that you are deeply, dangerously, clinically depressed. Can't you recognize your MORALISM in all this?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 264 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:33 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 266 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:41 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 267 of 294 (335856)
07-27-2006 7:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 266 by nator
07-27-2006 7:41 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
It's a morality based upon how one's actions affect others.
Yes, and if I say, why should I care, your only answer is that I am insane? Don't you see that you are begging the question? You have to prove that "Thou shalt be responsible" is a correct moral dictum. It's impossible to do so. It's a matter of FAITH.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 266 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:41 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 268 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:53 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 269 of 294 (335984)
07-28-2006 8:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 268 by nator
07-27-2006 7:53 PM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
It is correct only in that it enables people to live together in societies. Why should I care if people "live together in societies" or not? Why shouldn't I just care about me? All you can reply is, in so many words, "You ought to care." A moral dictum. Based on Faith in the unprovable correctness of that dictum.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 268 by nator, posted 07-27-2006 7:53 PM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 270 by nwr, posted 07-28-2006 8:20 AM | | robinrohan has replied | | | Message 286 by nator, posted 07-28-2006 5:37 PM | | robinrohan has replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 271 of 294 (336019)
07-28-2006 10:28 AM
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Reply to: Message 270 by nwr
07-28-2006 8:20 AM
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Re: Reply to Schraf--faith and virtue
Because your own life is highly dependent on society. well, nwr, if everyone else goes on caring, I don't have to. I can live off the fat of their caring. Why shouldn't I do this?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 270 by nwr, posted 07-28-2006 8:20 AM | | nwr has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 273 by iano, posted 07-28-2006 11:38 AM | | robinrohan has replied | | | Message 287 by nator, posted 07-28-2006 5:47 PM | | robinrohan has not replied |
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robinrohan
Inactive Member
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Message 275 of 294 (336063)
07-28-2006 1:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 274 by Faith
07-28-2006 11:39 AM
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My answer in a nutshell has been that not all faith is a virtue, but faith in the true God may be, especially if it costs.
Yes, one way to think of it would be to say that whether faith is a virtue or not depends on what you have faith in. If one has faith in the validity of the code of some vicious regime, I suppose that would not be so good.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 274 by Faith, posted 07-28-2006 11:39 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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