Why is Faith a Virtue?

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Why should I care if people "live together in societies" or not?

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You don't have to, but most people are, more or less, social people by nature. Most people get a little (or a lot) crazy if they are isolated. Humans evolved to be social creatures.Also, you depend upon many, many other people to provide goods and services to make your life far, far easier and comfortable.

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Why shouldn't I just care about me?

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If you cared about yourself you would go to the doctor.If you care not about yourself and not about anyone else, then I'd say you are probably depressed.But you are the one using the word "should", not me.

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All you can reply is, in so many words, "You ought to care."

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No.I have repeatedly said that there are social and physical consequences to not caring at all about oneself and not caring about anyone else.Again, you are the one using the word "should".

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A moral dictum.

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Nope.Simply practical. No morality whatsoever.Simple rewards and consequences.

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Based on Faith in the unprovable correctness of that dictum.

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What part of, "I never said it was absolute, only that it happens to be very practical and useful and effective within human societies." don't you understand?

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well, nwr, if everyone else goes on caring, I don't have to. I can live off the fat of their caring. Why shouldn't I do this?

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You certainly can do this. Many do. Of course, do not forget that we are talking about lack of caring for oneself, as well.Of course, there are potential consequences to this attitude and course of action.If you make it clear that you don't care about anyone else, or yourself, others are not likely to care much, if at all, about you, and you will likely behave in self-destructive behaviors.People do helpful, thoughful things for one another when they care about each other. You would be choosing to repel such actions.In addition, when people care about themselves, they behave in a way that is caring toward themselves.You reap what you sow, IOW.Nobody is telling you you "must" or "should" care about others or yourself, just that there are consequences for not doing so.

You admitted earlier that there was a moral element involved.I will now explain to you, Schraf, what "moral" means. It has nothing to do with benefits.Morality has to do with right and wrong, no matter the consequences.Now suppose this scenario: I am this extremely selfish person who thinks of no one but himself and am quite happy with this arrangement. I cheat my way through life, taking advantage of others, and continue to be quite happy and successful throughout my life. I have a certain charm which fools people so there are those who admire and love me. I am by no means alone. I have plenty of company. At the end of my life, have I done anything wrong?

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nwr tries to equate morality to practicality.

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No.They are not equal at all.

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He doesn't want to say that the reason we ought not to be irresponsible is that it would be WRONG--but you can't get away from some moral rule at back of it all.

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It wouldn't be morally wrong to be irresponsible.It would have many detrimental consequences so it is best to not be irresponsible if you want to avoid those consequences.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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Now suppose this scenario: I am this extremely selfish person who thinks of no one but himself and am quite happy with this arrangement. I cheat my way through life, taking advantage of others, and continue to be quite happy and successful throughout my life. I have a certain charm which fools people so there are those who admire and love me. I am by no means alone. I have plenty of company. At the end of my life, have I done anything wrong?

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Is this supposed to be a response to something I've said, because as far as I can tell, it has nothing at all to do with what I have been saying?You made a mistake when I used the word "should" upthread and you have refused to accept my clarification.

You said: I said: You said: In the scenario, Schraf, there were no consequences (except negative consequences to others).Did this guy do anything wrong?

Did the "Absolute Morality" thread spill into this one?Robin, please, stay on topic. Why is faith a virtue?

It's not a virtue per se.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.

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"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

It is very hard to separate the faith from the belief, especially here without looking like I support something as horrible as what the Nazi's did.
Do you think that courage or resolve are ever dishonorable?
It is the faith that instills this courage or resolve. Despite your disagreement with the actions or the basic belief itself, the courage even unto death still is honorable. One would hope that people of that strength of conviction would have the "right" thing in which to have faith.From what I remember of Germany's history, the men involved in the Holocaust mostly ran away from the camps and hid to avoid paying for the horrid actions they had done. This does not show faith in their belief, so nothing they did in that respect deserved honor.