A statement of my disbeliefs

GAMERA!!!!!This message has been edited by crashfrog, 04-25-2005 04:09 PM

Nice spot! Actually its the Primordial Egg, funnily enough.

Messages 14-17 are off-topic avatar chit-chat. ENOUGH!Adminnemooseus

I'm not sure if this is on topic or not. Let me know if not, and I'll take my questions / statements to another thread.Reading here about belief and disbelief, I think there's an important difference between "having a reason to believe" and believing.If belief is truly a choice, then it seems to me that it's meaningless to let "belief" be dictated by facts and evidence. At that point, it's not a choice, it's a scientific conclusion. As we're so fond of saying here, if you don't believe the evidence, you're some kind of ignorant dunce.To me, belief / disbelief only matters when you're choosing--i.e. when you're not basing your choice on evidence. For example, Percy using his "gut" or somebody believing that life is better with God in it than without God in it.So, getting back to your original point, I would never disagree with you. My point is that, when it comes to belief, why does it matter if God is a construction of the human mind or not?Like Percy says, he believes. There's no right or wrong, there's no evidence for or against God or Gods. The power of God or Gods is in choice. The power of God or Gods is in what it does for you, what it brings out of you.You're not going to get conflicting evidence. It is possible to believe in God and in a naturalistic world. The two theories are not separable via evidence, they don't necessarily make unique predictions.By waiting for evidence for God, you've already set your belief. Belief is a framework, an unsaid assumption that we use to interpret the world. Even if you saw something that "made" you believe in God, to anybody else it's explainable with other mechanisms, or unknown and in need of explanation. In other words, in the scientific sense of the word, it is not evidence.I think we should operate under the principle that science will never find evidence for God. What then? To believe or not to believe in a God or Gods is completely up to your own choice. What do you choose then? Why?What is left when a choice cannot be made on evidence?

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That said, I don't believe in God. But I'm glad my mom does. It makes her a better person. And I wish some people I knew believed in God too. Godlessness is not for everybody, I think. In fact I think I may be better off with a God... but I haven't decided yet.

Yes, I know, and I am fine with that. It's your road to travel.And since you know everything about the "Christian Godhead" and the bible, your free and clear to move along. No need to waste your time or others.*edit*
By looking for evidence and signs and wonders all the time you might be missing out on the more obvious stuff.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 04-25-2005 09:46 PM

Buzz - I don't need to know everything - I don't know everything about scientology but I know enought to decide it's bunk.In the same way I don't feel that further consideration of the christian reglion is worth the time. Remember althought it's got priority in your life, it has no special merits for some of us.

Some days I need two cups of coffee to get going. Some days, I can't find my car keys. Some days, my human mind is "under construction!" Please drive slowly around me. Do not honk.Charles, I will agree with you that we have many more topics to cover besides the Christian religion. RiverRat, you need to respect this and tone it down in THIS thread.Occasionally, my beliefs will surface in my conversation, but I won't fan the flames. BTW Charles..who IS General Krull, anyway?? Time...Love....and Communication. Its nice to chat once in awhile without having to make a point or defend a position.This message has been edited by Phatboy, 04-26-2005 02:22 AM

In a simpson's Episode - Lisa has a pen-pal in South America, her country is taken over by General Krull.

I'm sorry phatboy, but I do not need to tone it down, as I have not toned it up. Some people like General Krull here need to now the hard facts.Jesus wasn't a pussy when he preached to some. He was a downright menace sometimes. It's called tough love, but its love none the least.I have stated that his belief is fine with me, as all others belief's too. I am not here to dictate people's beliefs. But since there is nothing that you or I can say to him, because he now knows enough about the "Christian Godhead", he's been there, done that,then why should we bother? At this point all you could do is pray for him, which I do.He is looking for signs and wonders, and evidence of God, and it is probably all around him, and in him.The good thing is that he is looking for God, which I respect greatly.

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Jesus wasn't a pussy when he preached to some.

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Yeah. He wasn't anywhere near as powerful as pussy.

What do you feed that cat, anyway?

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I'm sorry phatboy, but I do not need to tone it down, as I have not toned it up. Some people like General Krull here need to now the hard facts.

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The only hard fact is that you have a belief that many of us have decided to discount. As long as we don't attack you for that faith, you have to accept that many of us have no further time or wish to explore the christian faith.This was a thread for the "atheists*" to outline their viewpoints - it is not acceptable for you to be preaching here. If you want to preach the word of your christian god - set up your own thread and anyone who is interested can discuss it with you there.* for want of a better term - really the people on here have been a mix of various things.This message has been edited by General Krull, 26-Apr-2005 07:28 AM

You know, it's not a fact. And what is scary is that from the same reply that you grabbed this quote from,

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I'm sorry phatboy, but I do not need to tone it down, as I have not toned it up. Some people like General Krull here need to now the hard facts.

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which was a very short, clear, and concise reply. Plus it was meant for phatboy not even you.
You choose to ignore this quote from myself : So, again I tell you it's totally fine with me, if you choose not to believe. Ultimately, it's not in my hands, but in God's hands. I am doing my part.But you keep persisting, so that leads me to wonder what is really going through your head. Or are you just not capable of expressing yourself clearly. You seem to be confused. Maybe in your hope to find God, you are showing frustration when you don't find him?I got involved because you made a blanket statement that you couldn't find God in these threads, or other places you read about. You also are pre-programmed from the religion you were involved in, and the experience you had there. I am here to tell you that it is possible, that the truth of the Christian Godhead has not been revealed to you, but rather hidden from you. After all if the devil exists, then he sure wouldn't want a person as intelligent as yourself to become a Christian, because you would be a powerful force in God's kingdom. And you would do many great works, and help the needy. Help bring others to light, and spread love like an infectious disease.Use the force Luke.

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I thought that it may be interesting for those who don't believe in the christian god to outline what their views are on the existance of God or Gods.

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Interesting and thought provoking and I can live with that.

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ME: The more I experience and the more I read on those forums and other places, the more I am convinced that the God of the christians and the muslims is a deadend - a construction of the human mind.

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I noticed thaat you have only mentioned "Christians and Muslims", why? What about Jews, Hindus, or else? Why you have singled out two groups. Obviously you are denying Christian God and Muslim God, while acknowledging the God of others?By the way, why your knolwedge and/or processing capacity of limited to this forum and other places? Do you have an animated mind and can you think yourself? I have no problem if you are a absolute atheist. But you are a half-baked one or perhaps a partial atheist who happened to be a bigot as well.I am not sure about the level of you knowledge and education. But mere denial is not enough to establish a claim. You are obligated to provide the evidence that God does not exist. So do you have any proof that Muslim God does not exist and is a construction of human mind? I like to take you on for this!!!

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That does not mean that I have entirely discounted the idea of "God" but rather I have found those particular franchises to be wanting.

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Present the evidence?

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It could be that I discover God in the Torah or some other place, who knows?

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Interesting, show me the proof of God existance in Torah (your version) and we will take it from there? Because I believe I can prove otherwise to you, not that I believe that.

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So basically - God could exist but I currently don't see anything to convince me at present.

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So if the God exist according to you then it has to be in Torah, not before Torah and not after Torah?Well your trible God long ceased to exist, you are living in the wrong era.Checkmate

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"An uninformed person cannot conceptualize the essence of knowledge nor its sublimity. One who fails to conceptualize something, its significance will never become rooted in the heart."

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I noticed thaat you have only mentioned "Christians and Muslims", why? What about Jews, Hindus, or else? Why you have singled out two groups. Obviously you are denying Christian God and Muslim God, while acknowledging the God of others?

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Where am I acknowledging other gods? I have never read the religion works of Jews,Hindus or others and thus cannot comment on their claims. It's like asking to judge a cake I've never tasted.

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Interesting, show me the proof of God existance in Torah (your version) and we will take it from there? Because I believe I can prove otherwise to you, not that I believe that.

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I have never read the torah, it's an examplar.This message has been edited by General Krull, 27-Apr-2005 12:42 PM