Earth of Genesis 1:9

Hi ICANT,from your post in the other thread you seem to be saying that in the days of Peleg the land mass was a whole because of Gen 10:25.You are literally interpreting 'earth' to mean 'land' in these versus. Earth is not always with reference to the land. The hebrew word is Eret`s and it is used in the bible to mean the land, the earth as opposed to the heavens but also to mankind, the people of earth.an example of where it clearly means 'mankind' is at Gen 11:1

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"Now all the earth continued to be of one language and of one set of words"

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Then VS 7

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"Come now! Let us go down and there confuse their language that they may not listen to one another’s language"

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so it is with the scripture in Genesis 10:25

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" earth was divided in the days of Peleg"

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it is more likely that the 'EARTH' in this context is referring to the 'PEOPLE' and not the land.The Hebrew word/name 'Peleg' literally means 'Division' (im sure you're aware that names had very specific meanings back then)
Peleg was born after the flood and 'during the days when the earth was 'divided' or scattered.This could easily be associated to the incident that happened at Babel when the languages were confused and the people scattered. The 'division' would be the people who became divided and scattering abroad. Peleg lived during the time of the building of Babel and would have witnessed the confusion of languages. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

there certainly would have been and it would most likely have been in the beginning when God began his creative 'days'but after the Flood, the earth would have been dramatically changed from that point on and if the land was still in one place before the flood, it certainly wasn't afterward.So during the days of Peleg in the post flood world, the earth would have already been divided by ocean.But the language of the people was still one.

you dont.The way you are interpreting it makes no sense to me.the post flood world would already have been split apart, divided by the huge amount of water that it received during the flood.So it makes no sense that 70 odd years after the flood, God decides he needs to divide up the land. Why would he need to do that?It is most likely that during the days of Peleg (100 odd years after the flood) the people decide to build a tower of religious signifigance at a place called Babel, as genesis says, and God puts a stop to it by 'dividing' up their languages and scattering them as it says in Gen 11:1-9

my statement that the earth would have been dramatically changed after the flood is based on the evidence. The preflood world must have had less water then it did after the flood. Today 70% of the earth is covered by water...that would have been a dramatic change.Basically we can deduct that if the waters of the deluge ('heavenly ocean' Heb., mabbul) came from the 'heavens' as Gen says it did 'All the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.' (Ge 7:11) So the waters that were was once above the earth, suddenly was on the earth. That amount of water would have caused many division in the land mass. It could also be an explanation as to why all the animals were able to be gathered together in one place before the flood. You are justified in believing that God gathered the land mass into one place...just not at the time you are saying it happened.And if anyone is confused about where the water came from see the creation account on day two.

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Gen1:6And God went on to say: 'Let an expanse come to be in between the waters and let a dividing occur between the waters and the waters.' 7Then God proceeded to make the expanse and to make a division between the waters that should be beneath the expanse and the waters that should be above the expanse. And it came to be so. 8And God began to call the expanse Heaven. And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a second day

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so there was a thick water layer surrounding the earth...2 Peter 3:5 mentions to this where it says "...there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water and by the word of God the world of that time (noahs time) suffered destruction when it was deluged with water"So the pre flood earth would have been very different to the earth after the flood. With so much water now covering the surface, we are likely living at higher altitudes then pre flood people lived and the weight of the water likely caused a lot of movement of the earths crust causing old mountains to rise to new heights and shallow sea basins were possibly deepened under the weight. Also new shorelines would have been established.The only thing that had not changed was that the family of Noah and all their descendants still spoke one language. But the Babel account clearly states that the people became divided by the confusing of their languages and they went their separate ways. So in a world that was already divided by floodwater's, there would have been no need to cause further division of land. The only likely explanation is that the 'division in the days of Peleg' refers to the babel account. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

im not a YEC so no,It is not based on the bible because the bible does not go into such details. I am basing it on what we know of the earth and of what we know of flooding and how flooding changes the surface of the land.It stands to reason that if the earth became flooded to such an extent that genesis says it did, then logically there are going to be some huge changes taking place.

im not sure how the water was sustained, the bible does not say. It merely says that there were 'waters' above the expanse and waters below it....the expanse being the sky/heavens where birds fly.But its worthy to note that in very humid climates, vegetation flourishes moreso then in dry environments. So having a lot of water in the atmosphere does not harm plants, rather it helps them.In the 2nd creative 'day' we are told that the 'expanse' was created to make an open space between the waters covering the earth and other waters above the earth... it implies that at that time there was no division between these 'waters' but that the entire globe was previously enveloped in water vapor.

if it was rainclouds, and they covered the entire atmosphere, then not much sunlight would have got to the earth and the sun would not have been visible in the skybesides, the expanse is the area of sky above our heads and the 'waters' were said to be 'above' the expanse. As it is now, rain clouds are prevail within the expanse so its not likely that they were rain clouds according to the bible account.but im interested, how much water vapor can the atmosphere hold? And what might happen to the composition of the air/atmosphere/expanse if it was completely surrounded by a canopy of water?

good articles, cheers. About the way air 'carries' water,
that article states

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Air simply acts as a transporter of water vapour not a holder of it. In fact, water vapor can be present in an airless volume and therefore the relative humidity of this volume can be readily calculated.

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The misconception that air holds water is likely the result of the use of the word saturation which is often misused in descriptions of relative humidity. In the present context the word saturation refers to the state of water vapor,[4] not the solubility of one material in another.

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That seems to be saying that atmosphere does not necessarily hold water...is that correct?with that in mind, if the water from the ocean was turned into vapor and put in the upper atmosphere it shouldnt change the pressure of the atmosphere at all because by decreasing the ocean size, there would be more atmospher thus preventing any additional pressure.I also have another theory that could explain how the atmosphere held so much water...water is a combination of Hydrogen & Oxygen, so what if the 'waters above the expanse' were actually these two gasses in their natural form, then in order to bring the deluge, God combined the two gasses together and released them to the earth. That is pure speculation...im just trying to think of possiblities here.

i agree that you are correct...the land mass, as the bible says, was all in one place at one time and it was way back in the first creative 'day'...likely millions of years ago.its not hard to imagine this...take away a large portion of the oceans and many of the continents are connectednow add the oceans and watch them be separated again.I just disagree with you that the division happened AFTER the flood. I believe the 'days of Peleg' is a reference to the division of the languages rather then of the land. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

the earth must have had less water then before the flood because as the bible says, the 'flood gates of the heavens were opened' and the world became flooded by water. The waters were said to come from 'above'
Previously it wasnt flooded, then it was... The floodwaters are still here, previously they were not. Im not sure anyone knows how far above sea level the land was before the flood. But we do know how much water would cover it if the earth was leveled out.
The New Encyclopdia Britannica says: The average depth of all the seas has been estimated at 3,790 metres (12,430feet), a figure considerably larger than that of the average elevation of the land above the sea level, which is 840 metres (2,760feet). If the average depth is multiplied by its respective surface area, the volume of the World Ocean is 11 times the volume of the land above sea level.So, if we could level it out, the sea would cover the whole earth to a depth of thousands of meters. yes, likely it was... the land was pushed upwards creating depressions where the waters drained into.Then at the time of the flood, more water (waters from the expanse above) was released onto the earth...this water was also enough to completely cover everything again.But how did the water drain off the earth? Eventually it did because the bible tells us that after a length of time the Ark came to rest on a mountain. So obviously the waters were able to drain into the much larger oceans then were previously there.And more ocean means less land. it wasnt the same water because the bible tells us at Gen 7:11In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month, on this day all the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.'so the waters came from the heavens....waters that previously were not on earth.

Gen 8:13"Now ...it came about that the waters had drained from off the earth"
Clearly the bible writer described the waters as 'draining off the earth' as opposed to being transported in any other method. Gen 7:19"And the waters overwhelmed the earth so greatly that all the tall mountains that were under the whole heavens came to be covered. 20Up to fifteen cubits the waters overwhelmed them and the mountains became covered."likely there were mountains before the flood but they probably were not as high as they are today for the reason that the weight of the water likely changed the landscape. The crust of the earth is relatively thin and with enough weight, it could have been pushed upwards or downwards by the force of the water. I dont believe we need to speculate on this subject because the bible is clear when it says
'The floodgates of the heavens were opened'
It was also a 'Down Pour'
It also 'Rained'all three of the above indicate that the water came from the sky, not the earth. If the water came from the earth, it would have enveloped the earth like a swelling tide, but the bible does not say this is what happened.Also remember that in the creation account, a part of the water the covered the earth was lifted up to create the 'firmament' or 'Expanse' between the waters and the waters.So im sure you are correct in believing that the earth was covered in water and the dry land was bought together in one place, but you must consider the genesis account about the waters being separated on the 2nd day to create an expanse happened before the dry land was bought together on the 3rd day.Some of the water stayed on the earth, but a larger portion of it was taken into the upper atmosphere to completely encircle the earth. exactly.so if you know that there were waters above, why are you wondering where the flood waters came from?

only if the foundation where it sits is of equal pressure...in terms of the earths crust, varies in depth from 5 to 25 miles. This means that the whole crust of the earth is not the same and so if pressure is exerted on one point, a weaker point of the crust will be affected differently.you may have noted i have said that the bible 'does not' contain such information

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Msg 51 'Peg wrote' It is not based on the bible because the bible does not go into such details. I am basing it on what we know of the earth and of what we know of flooding and how flooding changes the surface of the land.

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just in case you missed it.

thanks for the links but i have no speakers Not even if the crust in one area is shallower then another?Also, we know that the climate during the Mesozoic period was warm, there were no ice caps at all, even at the poles! Plants grew lush in a sub-tropical climate. Geologists have also confirmed that the land was lower then it is now and there were no high mountains making physical or climatic barriers.So its not incorrect to say that the earth was flatter then it is now at some time in the past...geology shows this. Even Antarctica was once a lush green land where herd animals roamed.Something has to account for the massive changes that have happened in recent times, there is geological phenomena such as the raising of old coastlines and sandstone mountains. We know sandstone is normally found below sea level, yet there are huge mountains of sandstone found in places where there is no sea such as Echo Point in Katoomba (see pic) And if the water pressure of such a flood were equal to 2 tons per square inch, as some have suggested, that weight is sufficient to fossilize fauna and flora quicklyWe know the change was rapid because the polar regions were suddenly plunged into a deep freeze that trapped animals who still had green grass in their mouths and stomachs, as has been discovered in modern times.Im surely convinced it was the Noachian flood.

except for if it happens along a fault or a Continental Plate.
Faults could easily be widened if enough pressure was excerted on them and the continental plates float on the viscous plastic asthenosphere which is quite movable. I suppose its hard to speculate what might happen because we havnt seen a flood of the proportions of the biblical flood, but surely its not hard to imagine how such a force might affect the earth?If tectonic convergence of crustal plates can produce rock deformation, uplift, and faulting then surely pressure from above would do so.

No, Gen 7:11 is not missing in my bible, I should have been clearer. Gen 7:11 does say that the 'Watery deep.' was broken open. In the Hebrew the word is tehohm′; in the LXX its 'the abyss'; and in the Vulgte its 'the great abyss.'In the first creative period Gen 1:2 mentions this watery deep as covering the whole earth. It uses the same hebrew word 'tehohm' and in Gen 1:6 it says that this 'watery deep' was separated so that there was an 'expanse between the waters and the waters'This explains why there are two watery deeps...one above the earth and one on the earth. And it explains why Gen 7:11 says that 'the springs of the vast watery deep were broken open and the floodgates of the heavens were opened'
It very well could be that both were broken open, but im not sure how the earths watery deep was broken open. Im sure you know that the Bible does not say that any mountains in Noah’s day were as tall as Mount Everest. And we know that Scientists have said that in the past many of the mountains were much lower than at present and that some have even been pushed up from under the seas...and as you mentioned, some are in the sea.We know its also believed that there was a time when the oceans themselves were much smaller then they are today and that the continents were larger as is testified to by river channels that extend far out under the oceans.If we consider that there is ten times as much water by volume in the ocean as there is land above sea level...what might the landscape be if this was not the case. If we could remove even half of the earths water, then the landcape would be hugely changed just as it would if we then added the water again. my bible uses floodgates and its taken from the literal meaning of 'windows' as you have mentioned (the footnote puts the literal rendering as 'Windows' and in the LXX as 'Cataracts'). I guess a modern language bible would prefer the use of 'floodgate' as opposed to 'window' because its easier to make a mental picture of a floodgate then of a window.If you look in Chpt 6:17, it reads in my bible 'As for me, here i am bringing the deluge'
Some bibles use the word 'floodwaters' In the hebrew the word translated into 'Deluge/Floodwaters' is ham-mab.bul` and it literally means 'heavenly ocean' which means the water is in a different location to the waters spoken of in chpt 7:11