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Author | Topic: Where Faith Comes From in the "moderate" Christian religions | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
anglagard Member (Idle past 837 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
In the 5th century BCE, the Greek philosopher Empedocles believed in spontaneous generation, gradual evolution of organisms and survival of the fittest. Not long after that, Aristotle taught that "man is the highest point of one long and continuous ascent." They started the idea of evolution and it certainly wasnt based on the scientific method then, nor do I believe it is today. As has been said before ad infinitum, evolution has no discrimination other than adaption (much to the consternation of tribalists). Therefore, Aristotle didn't know, or even begin to propose any TOE, as understood by anyone with remote familiarity with the works of Darwin. Also, I am curious as to what qualifies you to be the judge of what constitutes the scientific method as to my knowledge, you have yet to admit you made a mistake when declaring that it took an immense amount of energy (as opposed to a mere spark) to turn hydrogen and oxygen to water. To never admit a mistake is a severe character flaw, to actually be proud of ignorance and revel in this state should be considered a mental disease. Perhaps the upcoming DSM 5 will mention this form of mental illness. Edited by anglagard, : add 'form of' Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
In the 5th century BCE, the Greek philosopher Empedocles believed in spontaneous generation, gradual evolution of organisms and survival of the fittest. Not long after that, Aristotle taught that "man is the highest point of one long and continuous ascent." They started the idea of evolution and it certainly wasnt based on the scientific method then, nor do I believe it is today. You believe a lot of stupid things. Your beliefs are not evidence.
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Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
No, my beliefs are not evidence, im merely stating a fact
the fact is that the idea of evolution began with greek philosophers who did not use science as a basis for the belief the idea has 'evolved' over time to what we have today. When it was rehashed by Darwin it caused a outrage in religious circles because it clearly was in conflict with the idea that God had created each species. stupid i know, but a fact none the less.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 837 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Peg writes: stupid i know, but a fact none the less. Perhaps you, as so many others have done, find a way to view the Bible in the broad and intended meaning of the basic message as opposed to some puny, contradictory, paper 'godlet' that must never be thought about other than superficially. I am still puzzled by your dogmatism. Why do you hate science and democracy? Is it family, the local tribe, or has some charismatic come between you and God? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Peg Member (Idle past 4930 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
anglagard writes: I am still puzzled by your dogmatism. Why do you hate science and democracy? Is it family, the local tribe, or has some charismatic come between you and God? dogmatism?i hate science and democracy??? im sure evolution doesnt cover ALL the sciences. just because i dont believe in evolution doesnt mean i dont believe in other sciences. And where does democracy come into it??? Am i undemocratic because i dont believe in evolution??? Edited by Peg, : No reason given.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 837 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Peg writes: dogmatism?i hate science and democracy??? im sure evolution doesnt cover ALL the sciences. just because i dont believe in evolution doesnt mean i dont believe in other sciences. And where does democracy come into it??? Am i undemocratic because i dont believe in evolution??? Ignorance of history, like ignorance of science, is a curable condition. Perhaps a new thread concerning the breadth and depth of the enlightenment would be appropriate. I consider it a topic in and of itself worth considering but if not severely narrowed, could explode beyond the narrow confines of the rules of this forum. Perhaps there may be a way, I'll see what I can do. Also, please remember, like they said in the Godfather, it's business, not personal. Edited by anglagard, : se instead of see, am i conjuring a roman? Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4716 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
God is good
But God was glib When He made Eve From Adam's rib Edited by lyx2no, : One too many "o"s in God. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them. Thomas Jefferson
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Woodsy Member (Idle past 3374 days) Posts: 301 From: Burlington, Canada Joined: |
But if you dont think evolution contradicts the biblical claim that God created life, and man, please explain it to me. If evolution means that we've descended from a common ancestor, how does this NOT contradict the biblical claim that God create the man in his image? I dont get it. Sure it contradicts it. So much the worse for the bible. If many years of careful investigation by a great many scientists shows something, and some old book written thousands of years ago by ignorant savages shows something else, is it sensible to go with the old book?
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Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
No, my beliefs are not evidence, im merely stating a fact the fact is that the idea of evolution began with greek philosophers who did not use science as a basis for the belief the idea has 'evolved' over time to what we have today. When it was rehashed by Darwin it caused a outrage in religious circles because it clearly was in conflict with the idea that God had created each species. stupid i know, but a fact none the less. Actually, yes, this is true. The concept of evolution, though far less refined than Darwin's concept, was thrown around in Cynic and Stoic philosophy circles. Aristotle rejected the idea, though he did believe certain animals spontaneously generated out of mud. The idea eventually faded in to obscurity, but the idea definitely did not begin or end with Darwin. "The problem with Socialism is you eventually run out of other people's money." --Margaret Thatcher--
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Peg,
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AND SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF LIFE(edited to replace species with life). IT DEALS SOLELY WITH THE ORIGIN AND EVOLUTION OF SPECIES. Do you get it now? Does it make any sense at all that creation and evolution are not even the same subject? Would you at least try to understand what evolution is about before you make these ignorant uneducated, uninformed comments? No. I didn't think you would. Edited by Theodoric, : See notes above Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4716 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AND SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES. I think you're going to have a hard time convincing Peg of this in light of this little gem. Edited by lyx2no, : Typo. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them. Thomas Jefferson
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Yes I misspoke. Meant to say the origin of life.
I will edit my post
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4716 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
I will edit my post And ruin my fun. Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them. Thomas Jefferson
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3941 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH AND SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES. Getting sloppy here? I would think you meant "life" rather than "species". Isn't Darwin's book "The Origin of the Species"? I would say that the theory of (biological) evolution has everything to do with the origin of species. ALL THAT SAID, THIS IS PRETTY FAR OFF-TOPIC. PEOPLE, TIME TO REVIEW THE TOPIC TITLE, MESSAGE ONE, AND THE OTHER EARLIEST MESSAGES OF THIS TOPIC. "Do not ask what the board administrators can do for you. Ask what you can do to keep topic messages relevant to the topic theme". Or something like that. Moose Added by edit: Mostly "never mind. others beat me to it". Still, how about getting on topic? Edited by Minnemooseus, : See above.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9076 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
It is necessary to show the falsehoods others post even if they are not directly on topic. The purpose of bringing this subject up is to show that Peg continues to equate origin of life with evolution and refuses to acknowledge the disingenuousness of using them interchangeably.
In Message 4 quote: I feel it is right and proper to point out specious and intellectually bankrupt arguments. Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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