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Author Topic:   Omniscience, Omnipotence, the Fall & Logical Contradictions.
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 130 of 354 (361552)
11-04-2006 3:49 PM


My view on the subject:
The "omnimax-God" is essentially an atheist construct. No offense to atheists, afterall, they merely take a set or premisses to their conclusion. But it's a collection of omni's almost designed to bring God crumbling down. That alone means that these type of hypothetics are dubious. I also find them to be tenuous because we have a set of super-powers we know nothing about. Almost any implication can be bandied around.
My problem, is one of specifics.
For example, if you accept an omnipotent and omniscient God, you then have a concoction that will allow for the illogical by definition. Nevertheless, logically, if God can do the impossible, then he is able to not foresee events unfold.
Otherwise, he isn't omnipotent.
So you see, it's all conjecture because the mind of God cannot be fathomed.
But also, as ever there is the problem of ignorance. If you're in a room and you can choose from chocolate or fruit, and there's another room where you can choose the same, only in one room God is watching, would you choose differently?
No! Therefore we can infer that God's knowledge doesn't affect the individual's choice.

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by override, posted 12-06-2008 7:03 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 133 of 354 (361568)
11-04-2006 4:18 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Christian7
11-04-2006 3:59 PM


Re: God: Just or Unjust?
Listen to mike the wiz
Oh no..now I'm in trouble!
....just leave that Asgara to me, I'll have eat for breakfast. Queeny on freewill-toast.
(welcome to the forum, I forgot to welcome you)

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 Message 131 by Christian7, posted 11-04-2006 3:59 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 255 of 354 (510644)
06-02-2009 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by override
12-08-2008 12:44 AM


The argument wasn't in the least flawed but is logically sound.
It is absolutely true, that whether God does or does not exist, this will never affect what you choose to eat.
To say I am using freewill to prove freewill is actually what's called a "vacuous truth", in the sense that I can only use reality as an example/.
In reality, we all know that we are in command of our choices. The burden of proof is upon those who think we don't have choices, which is against 100% of the facts.
So you have to prove that God's existence would change the physical make-up of your taste buds, to stop you liking chocolate rather than fruit. It's ludicrous, and thus reductio ad absurdum is complete.
Fact is that anyone with one quarter of a brain knows that we make choices on our own. You have to prove how God's existence would change your choice.
You can't assume determinism to prove determinism. Why should I have to prove the obviousness of freewill, but atheists don't have to prove the affects of determinism? Weird.

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 Message 242 by override, posted 12-08-2008 12:44 AM override has not replied

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 Message 258 by Blue Jay, posted 06-02-2009 6:44 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 263 of 354 (512375)
06-17-2009 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Blue Jay
06-02-2009 6:44 PM


Re: I like chocolate
Hi
You're stating a lot of things but proving very little.
The burden of proof was never on me because choices/freewill, exists. That we have genuine choices in our mind, every day, which don't involve another entity, is a truism.
You didn't specifically answer my post. It's easy to put me under fire and never respond to my content. But now you need to prove that God's existence affects choice.
For example - if judgement day does happen, can I claim that murdering you is God's fault?
How can I when logically judgement day only exists if my God exists, and my God says, "Do no murder".
Philosophically, the hypothetical problems of freewill and determinism might be genuine problems for Theism, but they are not problems for a Christian whom believes in an inerrant bible.
Why would it follow that God would say, "do no murder" if I didn't have a choice to?
If the biblical God exists, then it's not a problem. My evidence is Exodus 20. Go and read it, as it is my premise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Blue Jay, posted 06-02-2009 6:44 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Blue Jay, posted 06-17-2009 8:17 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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