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Author Topic:   Does God Really Exist???
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 5 of 305 (86935)
02-17-2004 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by CreationMan
02-16-2004 5:21 PM


There could be a god, gods, demi gods, supernatural killer pickles, demon farts (this one's for you Stephen) or anything else anyone wishes to come up with. However, there is no way to know, no way to go about knowing, and no way to determine which is correct among the infinite possibilities (not to mention that there is no way to falsify anything supernatural)...so as Dan indicated..who cares or why should I care?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by CreationMan, posted 02-16-2004 5:21 PM CreationMan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 02-17-2004 9:22 AM Mammuthus has replied
 Message 8 by CreationMan, posted 02-17-2004 10:43 AM Mammuthus has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 7 of 305 (86948)
02-17-2004 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by MrHambre
02-17-2004 9:22 AM


The misuse of science is a clear case of ignorance. However, I also have to wonder what the motivation is for even attempting to misuse or mischaracterize science in order to support ones religious beliefs. I am beginning to conclude that it is a result of very shallow and fragile faith on the part of creationists. Thus they seek support from any kind of unlikely source and are unable/unwilling to understand anything that contradicts their worldview. They do not seem to have a clear reason for believing what they believe and feel threatened by anything that challenges their beliefs. Maybe that is also why it is the fundies/poorly educated that see evolution in conflict with their beliefs in the first place. Everything seems threatening when you have no clue and at the same time it is easy to believe in things that conflict with observable reality when you are scared as well...some are even scared of farts (though I have to admit..after eating a Whopper with extra cheese one would tend to fear my demon farts as well).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by MrHambre, posted 02-17-2004 9:22 AM MrHambre has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 49 of 305 (87183)
02-18-2004 4:41 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
02-17-2004 2:19 PM


So many choices no way to objectively choose
quote:
Mammuthus writes:
There could be a god,(...)However, there is no way to know, no way to go about knowing, and no way to determine which is correct among the infinite possibilities
Who says that the possibilities are infinite? There is a difference between Monotheistic Omnipotance and Infinite comprehension.
Who says the possibilities are not infinite? There may be a difference between monotheism and polytheism but there is not way to support or refute the veracity of either. I find niether compelling..so regarding god/gods/supernatural whatevers, why should I care?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Phat, posted 02-17-2004 2:19 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 02-18-2004 5:07 AM Mammuthus has replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 52 of 305 (87195)
02-18-2004 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Phat
02-18-2004 5:07 AM


Re: choose One way or Your way>>>>>
Hi Phatboy,
quote:
I have the choice of relationship with Him or I have an infinite number of other choices.
I am not denying that you have the right to the choice you made. However, this last statement is wrong. A Hindu for example does not have an infinite number of choices. They have a restricted pantheon of gods they worship. I am an atheist so I have no choices. However, whether you worship one god, many gods, or are merely superstitious, this is not something you arrive at objectively and is not supportable with fact. Hence it is faith. That is why many of us are arguing with CreationMan because he claims god is a self evident fact and that this conclusion is logical..it is also one reason why those of us who do not believe are asking "who cares?" with regard to the topic of the post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Phat, posted 02-18-2004 5:07 AM Phat has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 57 of 305 (87207)
02-18-2004 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by MrHambre
02-18-2004 6:52 AM


Re: Spoiled Brat
It also begs the question, if god creates all people ex nihilo..why does genetics so convincingly show that we are directly related to our parents? Why can one do a geneology at all? Maybe CreationMan is yet another Storkist? On the other hand, if all of these discoveries are to be attributed to some mythological being rather than to the actual scientists who made the discovery..does that make patents irrelevant...run on out and copy those drugs CreationMan...god made your viagra just to get a rise out of you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by MrHambre, posted 02-18-2004 6:52 AM MrHambre has not replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 59 of 305 (87219)
02-18-2004 8:47 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Chris
02-18-2004 8:18 AM


quote:
1.....Well, then obviously your brain, and your thought processes, are also the product of randomness. So you don’t know whether it evolved the right way, or even what right would mean in that context. Young man, you don’t know if you’re making correct statements or even whether you’re asking me the right questions.’
Random processes can lead to non-random outcomes...the underlying mutations that drive evolution are random..natural selection which drive many mutations (and phenotypes) to high frequency is not. So that argument is pointless. That the orginal replicating molecules on the planet arose by random process does not mean that subsequent evolution was random. I could just as easily say that a Giant Pink Unicorn makes you believe in your god by hitting you with an invisible handgranade full of drugs and it would be just as logical as your example 1.
quote:
2. On another occasion, a man came to me after a seminar and said, ‘Actually, I’m an atheist. Because I don’t believe in God, I don’t believe in absolutes, so I recognize that I can’t even be sure of reality.’ I responded, ‘Then how do you know you’re really here making this statement?’ ‘Good point,’ he replied. ‘What point?’ I asked. The man looked at me, smiled, and said, ‘Maybe I should go home.’ I stated, ‘Maybe it won’t be there.’ ‘Good point,’ the man said. ‘What point?’ I replied.
How do you know you actually believe in god? How do you know you believe in the right one? How do you know there are not millions of gods....you have absolutely no basis in reality for your beliefs. That is why it is called faith. The atheist does not know that there is no god/gods/all powerful pink unicorns...but there is no evidence for any supernatural beings so he/she does not care....again why should I care about mythological dieties?
quote:
If there is no God, ultimately, philosophically, how can one talk about reality?
Even if there is a god..one can not be sure they are percieving reality.?
quote:
How can one even rationally believe that there is such a thing as truth, let alone decide what it is?
Rationally you cannot show supporting evidence or a testable and falsifiable hypothesis that your god exists. Everyone, believer or not determines the "truth" themselves..even among the "true believers" there is a wide range of "truths".
AiG...that lovely bastion of misinformation and poor logic...gotta love it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Chris, posted 02-18-2004 8:18 AM Chris has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Chris, posted 02-18-2004 9:24 AM Mammuthus has replied

Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 61 of 305 (87225)
02-18-2004 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by Chris
02-18-2004 9:24 AM


quote:
Well, I can only feel God in my private relation with Him which makes me belive in HIM until now.
If you can only feel him in your personal relation to him, that makes him useless for me. In addition, anecdote or personal preferences hardly answer the question of the title of this thread.
quote:
If nobody can feel GOD, how come there are millions of people still believe in HIM?
There are millions of people who believe in other god/gods or diety like beings (Buddhists for example)..millions do not believe in your god..millions of people believe in really strange superstitious things. That hardly makes them right.
quote:
Even smart people still believe in HIM also.
Smart people make mistakes to ..in any case, that is hardly evidence of a god either...smart people put their money in stocks that tank. Mr.Hambre is smart yet he thinks Kid Rock can sing..go figure
quote:
I don't want to be Biblical, since I know you don't believe it, but..
but you did anyway...the bible saying the bible is correct is circular reasoning and not evidence.
quote:
Have you asked GOD with that way? If you haven't then you won't find GOD.
You have no way to support or refute that statement..maybe if you don't pray you will find out that I am right..or maybe you will personally discover that Vishnu is the true god..it is completely devoid of evidence, testability or falsifiablity...so why should I care?
quote:
That's what I believe and that's why I still believe in Him eventhough there are many people who don't believe in Him.
It is fine with me what you believe. I am not trying to change your beliefs in your god...however, your personal beliefs still do not really addresss "Does god really exist???" or why I should care.
cheers,
M

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Chris, posted 02-18-2004 9:24 AM Chris has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Chris, posted 02-18-2004 10:47 AM Mammuthus has not replied

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