The bible and homosexuality

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Leviticus is, of course, old testament. Most Christians these days ignore the majority of the teachings in the old testaments for obvious reasons: they're considered outdated to our moral standards today.

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My understanding of New Testament theology is that we are no longer under the "Old Covenant." This would include dietary restrictions, holy days, etc. However, I don't see how the verses in Lev. dealing with homosexuality fit in as part of the Old Covenant. It seems to be more of a general rule, or a proscribed sin outside of the covenant.However, within the New Covenant as proscribed by Jesus the Old Covenant was abolished. In addition, Jesus is set up as an intermediary between us and God (YHWH). So it is more of a question of what Jesus taught on the matter, at least as it applies to Christian theology. As far as I know, Jesus never mentioned it even though he lived among communities that openly condoned homosexuality, such as the Romans. Paul the Apostle included references to abstaining from homosexuality, but he also hinted at abstaining from heterosexual sex as well. He was a bit of a stoic, and this asceticism seemed to bleed into his teachings. All in all, it is hard to judge whether homosexuality is allowed or forbidden within the New Testament/Covenant, at least in my estimation.PS: This is completely my opinion on the matter and I am not here to dictate what the Bible is saying. But, if it weren't for differing translations we wouldn't have the number of Christian sects we see today. I usually look at homosexuality as being a personal choice that doesn't affect me or my possible salvation, so why worry about it. It seems that only fear and hate drive those that speak out vehemently against homosexuality. I think Jesus taught better than that.

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In other words, tread carefully.

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Yep, it is a "tread lightly" topic indeed. I wasn't involved in the previous debate because it was so heated, and it seemed like feelings were hurt. We all have sinned, and I hardly see how anyone can point fingers. Splinter in one eye, log in another. Personally, I really can't see how Jesus would be against people loving one another, regardless of "equipment".

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If we want to be strict biblical literalists, (and I know we all do!) I've never once put a woman's wang in my mouth. Had too much trouble finding her wang to even try it.

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Actually, a clitoris could be considered a vestigial penis, or vice versa. The start out as the same fleshy bud during fetal development before either ovaries or testes develop. Of course, I don't know if you have ever had a clitoris in your mouth either . . .

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Not that I want to, but it can't hurt to clarify what the rules are, here.

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The rules are relative, just like morals.

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Also - people often make a note of what it says in Romans chapter one, but miss the first verse of chapter two.

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I took a New Testament class while in college (a presbyterian based but VERY liberal college). I learned more in that class than I did in my previous 20 years going to church. When Paul's letters are put into the context of the society he was writing to it takes on a whole new meaning, especially when the original greek is put into its social connotations. Within this context, the question of homosexuality takes on a new facade. Instead of homosexuality being wrong, Paul was stressing the sinful nature of homosexual prostitution. I am tempted to take another New Testament class to brush up a bit, especially a class that combines the history behind the theology. I would also like to look more into the gnostic movement that was influential at the time.Anyway, it is my feeling that people are moving away from following the teachings of Jesus, and moving towards justification of their prejudices by quoting selective scriptures. I always thought of the Bible as something to guide your own personal walk instead of a reason to critique someone elses walk. Of course, being a professed agnostic doesn't put me in the best position to persuade christian practice.

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What has Lam got to do to get a debate going ? We all seem to agree on this.

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Give it time. Surely a dissenter will chime in soon.

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Well, then become a christian like me. What have you got to lose?

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I am flattered that you are concerned about the fate of my eternal soul Mike. I wish the world were filled with open minded christians like yourself. However, there were honest questions that I asked myself and the honest answers have led me down the path I am on now.Just to help you understand where I am coming from, ask yourself why you aren't a Rastafarian. What is keeping you from accepting Haile Selassie as the second coming of the Christ?

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Homosexuality is inverted behavior not conducive to health or the established 'request' to be 'fruitful and multiply'.

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Homosexuality is only inverted if you first decide that heterosexuality is the only correct practice.Also, heterosexual sex is just as unhealthy as homosexual sex. Numerous STD's are transmitted through hetero sex. In fact, wearing a condom is actually healthier, but it prevents humans from being fruitful and multiplying. This is in stark contrast to what you seem to be implying, that unprotected heterosexual sex is healthy compared to other sexual acts. Perhaps the safest sex there is is partner-less sex, masturbation.

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For God to condone it, certainly would be against his establishment. For these reasons, it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether the Old or New Testament speaks against it, and the New Testament does most vehemently speak against it.

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It does matter if commandments and proscriptions are in the Old or New testament, as I laid out earlier. The Old Covenant, including dietary restrictions and Holy Observations, was fulfilled by the coming of the Christ. Christians are now under the New Covenant, as proscribed by Jesus's teachings. I would argue that this is one of the most important tenets within christianity. Nowhere did Jesus speak out against homosexuality. It is only in the Pauline and Deuteropauline letters do we see homosexuality mentioned, and even then it is only certain practices (homosexual prostitution by temple priests) that are spoken of. The Apostle Paul was a very wise man, but his teachings should not be taken as coming from the mouth of Jesus (in my opinion only, you may think differently).

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I believe there is heterosexual behavior that is foul and unhealthy, and I do not care how people get their jollies. But the contention that God has somehow changed his rules to suit our times, is ridiculous since health and multiplying are still extant facts.

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The coming of the Messiah did change the rules. Jesus is now the intermediary between us and YHWH.

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Does God want New Testament people to be healthy? Well, yes! Therefore, the laws of health as found in Leviticus, including those of sexual behavior, apply throuhout time and apply to all those who wish to obey the God who gave them.

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Do you eat pork? Think about it.

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As for the number of translations being the reason for the number of sects, no, that is not it. It is the number of interpretations of the Written Word that are the cause. Well, think about it.

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Good point. Differences in interpretation of agreed upon translations is in fact the main difference between sects. You caught me on that one.I hope you don't feel like I am telling you what christians should believe or how they should practice their religion. My posts in this thread are my opinion, and should be regarded as such. The tone of my posts can, at times, sound patronizing, but that isn't what I intend. I am just trying to communicate what I feel is the truth, but realize that the truth is very elusive. Happy posting.[This message has been edited by Loudmouth, 04-29-2004]