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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
ringo
Member
Posts: 13213
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 436 of 451 (780725)
03-19-2016 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 434 by Straggler
03-19-2016 12:36 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Straggler writes:

Blah blah blah... logical inconsistency... blah blah blah....


You're missing the rather obvious point that belief has nothing to do with logic. A belief doesn't require logical consistency.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 434 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2016 12:36 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29043
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 437 of 451 (780730)
03-19-2016 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 435 by Straggler
03-19-2016 12:38 PM


Re: The Hills Are Christ Is Alive
Straggler writes:

I'm not accusing your belief of being logically inconsistent. I am pointing out that your position in this thread is logically inconsistent.

I believe that is what you are attempting but so far failing miserably.

Can you point to even a single example where I have used the "word salad" description where the person posing the word salad has also said that what they posted was simply a belief and not fact or supported by evidence or was reasonable, logical or rational?

I have no problem with people holding unsupportable, irrational, illogical, unreasonable beliefs unless they also try to claim there is reason, logic, rationality, evidence or factuality to the beliefs beyond the fact that they hold such beliefs.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 435 by Straggler, posted 03-19-2016 12:38 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
AdminPhat
Administrator
Posts: 1800
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-03-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 438 of 451 (780793)
03-21-2016 4:22 PM


Back On Topic
This topic is drifting off of its original intent, which was to show that many individuals can have many different concepts of Christianity. We may not agree with each others definitions, but to argue that is not appropriate in this thread.

To reiterate some of jars main points:

jar writes:

It's pretty obvious that many of the posters here are Christians, yet seem to hold vastly different ideas of what Christianity means. Perhaps it would be good if those who called themselves Christian defined their personal concept of Christianity.

This is not meant as much as a debate as a question and answer session.

Straggler take note:

jar writes:

If someone does not accept another's beliefs, fine. But this is not the thread to attack them, rather present your case for your own beliefs. Let the readers make their own decisions.

If you believe that God is impossible to define by virtue of logic, fine. If you call yourself a Christian, also fine. But for those who do not call themselves Christians, might I suggest steering clear of this thread. My alter-ego, Phat, is going to open another topicmore appropriate for arguments.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9435
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 439 of 451 (797548)
01-23-2017 5:33 PM


Remix
jar writes:

  • A GOD that chooses who will be saved doesnt make sense. A GOD that creates all and then goes through and picks and chooses who will be saved is just plain cruel and arbitrary and not something to be worshiped.

  • A GOD that wants to be worshiped is just too silly a thought. Maybe some picayune God might worry about what folk thought of Her, like the little girl who worries that her corsage might not be right, too big, or too small, or the guy that worries about his tie not being in style or that people think he looks funny, but GOD cannot be so insecure.

  • The idea of Once saved always saved just made no sense. Thats one of those simplistic ideas that gives folk an out. Anyone who does something really wrong obviously wasnt saved in the first place, or so their argument went. That just felt way to much like a copout and just another example of mental gymnastics, a way of cheating and making excuses.

  • Is it possible that We choose rather than God? Is it possible that some of us may choose unwisely? Is God obligated to intervene?

    Is it possible that God wants us to worship for our benefit rather than Hers? Sort of like an exercise in mindfulness?


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

    Replies to this message:
     Message 440 by ringo, posted 01-24-2017 11:03 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 13213
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.0


    Message 440 of 451 (797598)
    01-24-2017 11:03 AM
    Reply to: Message 439 by Phat
    01-23-2017 5:33 PM


    Re: Remix
    Phat writes:

    Is it possible that God wants us to worship for our benefit rather than Hers? Sort of like an exercise in mindfulness?


    Then why aren't believers more mindful than unbelievers?
    This message is a reply to:
     Message 439 by Phat, posted 01-23-2017 5:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Davidjay
    Member
    Posts: 1026
    From: B.C Canada
    Joined: 11-05-2004
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 441 of 451 (811461)
    06-08-2017 11:10 AM


    Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Christianity is based on Christ and what He said and did.

    Deal with it...

    JESUS' OWN WORDS
    Salvation
    Holy Spirit
    Back to Jesus
    And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never
    thirst.

    Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

    I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

    I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

    I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will
    give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

    Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall
    have the light of life.

    Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of
    God?

    Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

    Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman

    I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can
    do nothing.

    I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the
    bright and morning star.

    Fear not; I am the first and the last:

    I am thy shield, and thy exceeding Great Reward.

    Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

    Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the
    Father that dwelleth in me, My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

    I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

    Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the
    kingdom of God that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto
    thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it
    cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

    The words that I (Jesus) speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

    *****************************************************************************

    (((If you believe these His Words, you are receiving Him. For 'As many as believed on Him, to them gave He the power to
    become the 'sons (and daughters) of God' (John 1; 12) For God so loved the world that He gave His ONLY BEGOTTEN SON,
    that whosoever believeth on Him, should not perish but have EVERLASTING LIFE. (John 3: 16) ..... Receive Him Now.......
    Jesus loves you !!! )))

    JESUS'S OWN WORDS
    Salvation
    Holy Spirit


    Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science.

    Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,


    Replies to this message:
     Message 442 by jar, posted 06-08-2017 12:28 PM Davidjay has responded

        
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29043
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 442 of 451 (811471)
    06-08-2017 12:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 441 by Davidjay
    06-08-2017 11:10 AM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Yawn.

    Sorry but once again you post nothing that actually addresses the topic or has any worth, value or meaning.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 441 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 11:10 AM Davidjay has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 443 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 6:54 PM jar has responded

      
    Davidjay
    Member
    Posts: 1026
    From: B.C Canada
    Joined: 11-05-2004
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 443 of 451 (811490)
    06-08-2017 6:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 442 by jar
    06-08-2017 12:28 PM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Ha, truly funny as you deny Jesus own words and say it has no bearing on His lifestyle called Christianity.

    There is nothing an atheist/ evolutionist wont deny or reject, as that is their modus operandi. Their blank brains can;t understand reason, logic, and a total lifestyle based on love rather than their theories that have never been proven and cant be proven and are just their antiGod denials.

    I repeat Christ is the center of CHRISTIANITY.

    The damnabe church system deleates Jesus and tries to control people for money and power, and it gives the Lord a bad name. Nevertheless Jesus is the founder of the whole lifestyle called Christianity.

    When you can not discern the difference between Christianity and churchianity you get your concepts totally confused and become dumber than a dumb atheist/evolutionist.

    For they have no discernment and no wisdom and have no foundation.


    Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 442 by jar, posted 06-08-2017 12:28 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 444 by jar, posted 06-08-2017 8:15 PM Davidjay has responded

        
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29043
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 444 of 451 (811503)
    06-08-2017 8:15 PM
    Reply to: Message 443 by Davidjay
    06-08-2017 6:54 PM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    And so again you simply misrepresent what I posted.

    But the facts are, Jesus was never a Christian, Christianity is a religion and very little in the Chapters of Club Christian seems to be based on what Jesus taught and the topic is on What is Christianity, not what is Jesus or who is Jesus or what did Jesus do. Those stories are irrelevant to the topic.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 443 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 6:54 PM Davidjay has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 445 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 10:22 PM jar has responded

      
    Davidjay
    Member
    Posts: 1026
    From: B.C Canada
    Joined: 11-05-2004
    Member Rating: 1.0


    (1)
    Message 445 of 451 (811506)
    06-08-2017 10:22 PM
    Reply to: Message 444 by jar
    06-08-2017 8:15 PM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    And so again you simply misrepresent what I posted.
    But the facts are, Jesus was never a Christian, Christianity is a religion and very little in the Chapters of Club Christian seems to be based on what Jesus taught and the topic is on What is Christianity, not what is Jesus or who is Jesus or what did Jesus do. Those stories are irrelevant to the topic.

    Jesus is the Christ in Christ-ianity, you again are just being intellectually dishonest, and contrary. And hence wouldnt make a Christian unless you become honest and consistent.

    Christianity is supposed to be about Jesus but the dam perverted self righteous church system has changed Jesus principles into their own damnable ones so as to gain converts and put them into slavery mentally and spiritually as long as they promise them salvation and a type of artifical peace of mind or the smuggness of self righteousness.

    Christianity and churchianity are two different things...

    The churchies absolutely hate Jesus just as their forefathers hated and persecuted all the Lords prophets... all as in all as stated by the Lord himself.

    For which of the prophets have not your fathers not persecited said Jesus. Religionists (like evolutionists) hate competition and truths...... they want to force their indocrination on ALL....

    (Just as true biology and evolution/atheism are two different things, and theres no common ground between them.)

    *************

    Churches and church people are not supposed to be dangerous. Right? Well not so, as Jesus’ own life
    verified. For who had the Lord of Lord crucified? Who secretly plotted to take him at night and secretly had a mock
    trial before the religious elders? And then who delivered him up to the Romans out of jealousy because he was
    teaching about a freedom that they couldn’t give the people?

    Yea, Yea, but the Christian church is different aren’t they? Well yes, some of them within are surely the Lord
    s sheep trapped in a religious system that they just can’t escape out of. But NO, the Christian church as a
    whole has become part of the world and part of the system itself. I mean this happened way back in the 5th century
    AD when the Roman emperor got converted and made the Christian religion the mandatory religion of the state.

    And ever since then, the large church systems of this world have been oppressing the Lord’s sheep around the
    world and been instigators of not only horrible atrocities, wars and inquisitions, but the perpetrators of individual
    crimes against humanity.Sure they have done some good, and spread some truth around the world, and some of
    their missionaries who were truly Christian have done a great job in reaching the lost. But the vast majority have
    just been teaching Western values and church values rather than the principles of love, equality and freedom that
    the Lord taught.

    And it is these church people and their hierarchy that have fought the Lord’s true sheep and shepherds ever
    since the beginning of time. How can I say this….Well didn’t ever the faithful martyr Stephen say this before
    the church religionists killed him

    ACTS 7: 51-54 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your
    fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which
    shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have
    received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it When they heard these things, they were cut to
    the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

    Jesus and all the Lord’s disciples taught that keeping the law was not enough to fulfill the law and that only
    God’s love could free us. And because this goes against the religious dogma of the holiness people of all ages,
    they have and will get angry as hell and even gnash with their teeth against those that teach about Grace of God.

    How do I know, I had a pastor foam at the mouth in opposition to the tracts I was passing out, and then slug me,
    before his followers dragged him away. And it is these same sort of people who had me jailed three times for my
    missionary work because I wasn’t part of a recognized Christian church.

    The Wiccans or New Agers didn’t try to throw me off a three story balconey, church people did, and they were
    supposed to be my own brethren in the Lord. So why are they dangerous, because when push comes to shove verbally
    and doctrinially they will call the system to put you away. They will call the Romans and accuse you of some
    trumpted up charge because they are of the system and think they break no laws and are totally righteous in the eyes
    of the world…without sin nor quile....and will use the system to stop your witnessing of religious truths

    For the Lord himself said "The time cometh that whosever killeth you, will think that he doeth God service.
    (John 16; 1) And they will "deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you and ye shall be hated of all nations
    for my names sake, (Mathew 24: 9). They "are from beneath, I am from above, (they) are of this world, I am not of
    this world. If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed, And ye shall know the TRUTH and the
    Truth shall set you free. (John 8: 23,31,32)

    But the vast majority of church peopledon't want the truth because they are of the world and trust in the world and
    its systems rather than in the Lord and His justice.So are the churches dangerous, Yes. So if any dare to win anyone
    from a church to the truths of the Lord, it is very dangerous, for only the Lord can ever reach anyone in any fold
    and it will always take a total miracle by Him to reach His Sheep.

    In My Opinion from Scriptures and true Life Experiences

    David Jay Jordan

    PS) But as with all cases we have to give each and every one a chance and not label them automatically just
    because they go to church or are trapped in a church, we all have been trapped in some sort of system or another, so
    we have to have patience with all individually until they prove otherwise. But as for the religious worldly church
    system ... it is hopeless as the Lord said.... IMO


    Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 444 by jar, posted 06-08-2017 8:15 PM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 446 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 10:24 PM Davidjay has not yet responded
     Message 447 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 7:41 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

        
    Davidjay
    Member
    Posts: 1026
    From: B.C Canada
    Joined: 11-05-2004
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 446 of 451 (811507)
    06-08-2017 10:24 PM
    Reply to: Message 445 by Davidjay
    06-08-2017 10:22 PM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Thats the topic and my answer is exactly on topic even though the deniers will deny and refuse to connect up Jesus with His religion or lifestyle or principles...... tough....

    Jesus wins when a person accepts HIM and follows HIM...


    Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 445 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 10:22 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

        
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29043
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 447 of 451 (811545)
    06-09-2017 7:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 445 by Davidjay
    06-08-2017 10:22 PM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Yawn.

    Davidjay, once again you are simply spouting really stupid nonsense.

    I am a Christian, raised in a Christian family, educated in a Christian school, a member of a Christian denomination (one that is actually a recognized apostolic chapter of Club Christian) so you claiming "Jesus is the Christ in Christ-ianity, you again are just being intellectually dishonest, and contrary. And hence wouldnt make a Christian unless you become honest and consistent." is not just factually wrong, it is silly.

    But the fact remains. Jesus was never a Christian. Jesus was born a Jew, raised a Jew, educated as a Jew and died a Jew.

    Christianity is the creation of other people than Jesus.

    Your cut & paste crap may make you feel better but has nothing to do with the subject of this discussion.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 445 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 10:22 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 448 by Phat, posted 06-09-2017 9:48 AM jar has responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 9435
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 2.0


    Message 448 of 451 (811564)
    06-09-2017 9:48 AM
    Reply to: Message 447 by jar
    06-09-2017 7:41 AM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    I actually think David has a case on this one. You and I have talked endlessly about what it means to be a Christian. Rarely do two Christians agree totally on anything, and there are many Christians who believe as you do...that Christianity is about what we DO and NOT about WHO HE is.

    I side with David on the Christianity=Christ belief, however.

    Christianity is the creation of other people than Jesus.

    I know that you believe that Paul/Saul was simply creating another religion.

    Your dear Mama taught you well. The evidence is backed by how you understand the Bible. But as you yourself have said, there are many definitions of what Christianity is. DavidJay may be a bit cocky and a Biblical Literalist. His understanding of wisdom through what is written can be challenged but not mocked. You shouldnt call him stupid any more than he should call evolutionists and scientists stupid.

    jar writes:

    I have no problem with people holding unsupportable, irrational, illogical, unreasonable beliefs unless they also try to claim there is reason, logic, rationality, evidence or factuality to the beliefs beyond the fact that they hold such beliefs.


    You do have a point technically, though there are many Christians who insist that everything they believe is logical and yet not of this world. They are but another chapter of Club: Christian.

    It appears Davidjay was a street evangelist. A loose canon, perhaps?(Pun intended) He has likely managed to fulfill at least some of the Great Commission, however. Ask him if he has ever done what Jesus commanded us to do.


    Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
    ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
    "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 447 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 7:41 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 449 by jar, posted 06-09-2017 10:13 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
     Message 450 by Davidjay, posted 06-09-2017 10:50 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 29043
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.5


    Message 449 of 451 (811570)
    06-09-2017 10:13 AM
    Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
    06-09-2017 9:48 AM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Phat writes:

    You shouldnt call him stupid any more than he should call evolutionists and scientists stupid.

    Read Phat. I did not call him stupid.

    However the topic is "What is Christianity?" And the fact is that Jesus was never a Christian. Jesus was born a Jew, raised a Jew, educated as a Jew and died as a Jew.

    It's fine to claim Christianity is based on Jesus but that really has neither meaning or relevance in this topic. The fact is that the only reason anyone even knows anything about Jesus is what others wrote, the religion others created and the religions people today like Davidjay are creating.

    Christianity is a religion.

    Christianity is a creation of humans.

    Even when you post "Christianity=Christ belief" that is you creating a religion. And I'm not even sure "Christianity=Christ belief" has any meaning. But even if it does have some meaning it is simply additional evidence that Christianity is whatever someone declares is Christianity.

    Phat writes:

    You do have a point technically, though there are many Christians who insist that everything they believe is logical and yet not of this world.

    And again, what does that even mean? If something is not of this world then how can it be logical since logic is a tool used to test things of this world?

    Phat writes:

    Ask him if he has ever done what Jesus commanded us to do.

    But Phat, that is also irrelevant to the topic.


    My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 448 by Phat, posted 06-09-2017 9:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Davidjay
    Member
    Posts: 1026
    From: B.C Canada
    Joined: 11-05-2004
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 450 of 451 (811582)
    06-09-2017 10:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 448 by Phat
    06-09-2017 9:48 AM


    Re: Christianity is based on Christ not on churchies.
    Yes, I have forsaken all and went into all the world, or at least Eight countries before returning HERE after 12 years on the field, and then setting up my international ministry reaching over 10 million viewers..

    Thats part of our Great Commission...

    Street preacher, never, I am a terrible speaker and not gifted in speech or music only logic and science and reserach and love for the poor and oppressed...


    Thanks to the webmasters HERE for allowing me to defeat atheists and evolutionists HERE, and show they have no math, no science backing them up and that they are totally dependant on semantics and luck and chance as their only support for their religion. Thanks again...

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 448 by Phat, posted 06-09-2017 9:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    Replies to this message:
     Message 451 by Davidjay, posted 06-09-2017 11:44 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

        
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