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Author Topic:   What if Satan reformed?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 165 of 234 (740167)
11-02-2014 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by Phat
11-02-2014 6:06 AM


Remind me, how many angels are on that pin
Remind me, how many angels are on that pinhead?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 6:06 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 8:30 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 168 of 234 (740171)
11-02-2014 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Phat
11-02-2014 8:30 AM


Re: Remind me, how many angels are on that pin
Phat writes:
We don't know.
Quite.
My question to you is what you think about faith in general.
It's misguided and pointless.
Im also more interested in the real angels that surround us and protect you rather than hypothetical ones.
There are no 'real' angels. Obviously.
Why does evidence have to be a prerequisite?
Because without any evidence of 200 foot flying dragons, we can confidently say that they do not exist.
And why do some equate belief in God with a belief in Santa Claus?
Why wouldn't they? They are both equally mythical. The better question is why do some people believe in gods and angels (and dragons) for which there is no evidence?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 8:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 11:22 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 170 of 234 (740176)
11-02-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Phat
11-02-2014 11:22 AM


Re: Remind me, how many angels are on that pin
Phat writes:
We? We who?
Anyone who wishes to think rationally.
Some of us have a rational faith without evidence.
It is not possible to have a rational faith without evidence. What you have is faith without evidence. Your beliefs are irrational, by definition.
We as a people and a nation and a global culture are divided on this issue.
Believers are divided, atheists aren't. Believers believe in all sorts of weird gods and spirits and even when they believe in the same God, they can't agree on what that god wants. It doesn't get more irrational than that.
Besides...what is your confidence in?
What an odd question. The problem with irrational belief is that, amongst other things, it colours your view of everything else. It's apparently hard for a believer to imagine that it's possible to exist without belief. Most of them seem to think that if they stopped believing they'd lead a life of pure existential hedonism, rapin' and pillagin' and fornicatin' away.
My 'confidence' is in people, family, friends, colleagues and mankind generally. Plus my own abilities as a decent human being trying to lead a decent and productive life. Pretty much the same as you I'd say - just without the need to embarrass myself worshipping a non-existent super-being and hoping for an afterlife.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 11:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 173 of 234 (740183)
11-02-2014 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Faith
11-02-2014 1:18 PM


Faith writes:
There is no such thing as faith without evidence, it's just that people don't remember what persuaded them.
Well at least that's a new excuse. Several billion people with selective amnesia - who would have thought it!
The rest is the usual refuted stuff.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Faith, posted 11-02-2014 1:18 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 1:57 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 176 of 234 (740189)
11-02-2014 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Phat
11-02-2014 1:57 PM


Re: Shine On You Crazy Diamond
Phat writes:
Subjective evidence is still evidence, in my book.
Yes, it is, but by definition ONLY in your book. ie worthless as evidence to anyone else.
Have I ever seen an angel? No. Have I ever seen God or Jesus? Maybe. A Spirit can shine through a willing vessel.
Just words, Phat, sentimental, comforting biblical-sounding words.
You might scoff and say that its just humans being nice to one another, and I would disagree. Humans may be nice and open doors for each other at the local mall,church, or rational skeptics meeting...but cram a bunch of refugees into the Superdome after a hurricane and the real human nature comes out.
Humans being nice to one another and being nasty to one another are just different faces of the same coin. It's silly (and plain wrong) to credit the niceness to god and the nastiness to human nature.
It takes a relationship with God to be nice then...and you likely will get persecuted for it on the spot.
Now you've really pissed me off. Of course people do not have to have a "relationship with god" - whatever the hell that might mean - for people to be nice to each other. I'm nice to people all the time and I'm the biggest non-believer you'll ever meet. What utter, offensive, non-Christian, bullshit.
Explain yourself. Carefully.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 11-02-2014 1:57 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 181 of 234 (740287)
11-03-2014 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
11-03-2014 2:31 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
You realise that you're just inventing all this stuff don't you?
I still waiting for an explanation of why people need to have a relationship with God to be nice.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 11-03-2014 2:31 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Phat, posted 11-03-2014 3:54 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9504
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 186 of 234 (740367)
11-04-2014 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by Phat
11-03-2014 3:54 PM


Re: Fallen Angel Reform School
Phat writes:
My belief is that having a relationship with God stops internal and spiritual death.
Well that's provably untrue. I am not internally or spiritually dead. What are you going to do with this new information, adjust your belief or carry on believing an untruth?
The problem with nice people...as well as mean ones...is that they die.
Yes, and if I believed in a God, I'd be right-royally pissed off with him for that little piece of malevolence.
And having kids wont carry your dreams
where did that idea come from??
but by all means live for today.
You're off in your own title world now. People generally both live for today and also plan for the future. I know I do, how about you?
Eternal life is not some fantasyland.
Well obviously it is. But you've already admitted elsewhere that you are a fantasist, why doesn't having that knowledge about yourself lead you to some other conclusions?

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by Phat, posted 11-03-2014 3:54 PM Phat has not replied

  
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