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Author Topic:   The bible and homosexuality: Round 3
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 241 of 306 (159189)
11-13-2004 8:04 PM
Reply to: Message 228 by Rrhain
11-13-2004 4:03 PM


Re: Please
Go back and read all my posts on this subject. If you still don't get it, I can't help you.
You either get it, and are just being a pain, and actually playing a game of insincere word twisting. Or you don't get it and are stupid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 228 by Rrhain, posted 11-13-2004 4:03 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Rrhain, posted 11-14-2004 5:09 AM riVeRraT has not replied

pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6023 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 242 of 306 (159191)
11-13-2004 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by riVeRraT
11-13-2004 7:58 PM


Re: Please
I am not cherry picking. Homosexuality is an act. Stoning is a punishment for an act. You cannot compare the two.
You can compare them both, because they are both rules set forth by the Bible (and the same chapter I believe)...
Why do you follow one rule but not the other?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 7:58 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:31 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

happy_atheist
Member (Idle past 4914 days)
Posts: 326
Joined: 08-21-2004


Message 243 of 306 (159192)
11-13-2004 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by riVeRraT
11-13-2004 7:18 PM


Re: Please
[qs ]Bingo!, now you got it too.
If your wife doesn't scream when shes being raped, then she just might be consenting to it. Thats the moral. So you too agree with the bible, congrats!
There is even more hope now. Peace.[/qs]
Not at all, my comment about the semantics of the word rape were directed at you mentioning a woman who likes and wants to be raped, not at the "screaming equals consent" issue.
I also notice that you moved from "not screaming equals consent" to "not screaming just might equal consent. Well my being seen somewhere near the scene of a rape at about the time it occured just might mean that I commited it, but then again I might not have done. Who knows. Might have's do not equal guilt, or even probable guilt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 7:18 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 251 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:32 PM happy_atheist has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 244 of 306 (159193)
11-13-2004 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Rrhain
11-13-2004 4:16 PM


Re: Please
Thats awesome rhain, you've repeated yourself for the 1000th time.
Tell him what hes won Johnny!
So tell me, did you figure all that out on your calculator?
Go back and answer your own questions, I told you, I'm through with you, you are dishonest, insulting, and a liar. You even admitted it.
Stop wasting our time, life is too short.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 229 by Rrhain, posted 11-13-2004 4:16 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by AdminNosy, posted 11-13-2004 8:15 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 269 by Rrhain, posted 11-14-2004 5:21 AM riVeRraT has replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 245 of 306 (159196)
11-13-2004 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by riVeRraT
11-12-2004 9:04 AM


Re: Please
If we are born gay, could you please point out the gay chromosome.
The organism at birth is the result of genetic and prenatal influences. Quite a bit of research has been done on the influence of hormones on the developing foteus and how that affects brain sex. This is still work in progress but it does appear that some transexuals for example have brains that are of different gender functioning than the genitals would indicate.
You are right though that this is a complex area particularly as we've not factored in bisexuality. To me it is clear we are dealing with a continuum not an either/or situation. That being said I believe these are choices individuals should make for themselves.
If a woman chooses not to scream it is a sign that she is enjoying it, thats what they mean in the bible.
This is so ignorant, offensive, and well so dumb. You do a better job than any atheist on this forum of providing arguments why the Bible is bad. A woman could be threatened into silence. One fear response is to go numb and paralysed. A woman could be too inhibited and confused to scream. What the Bible seems to say is that a woman must scream or face the death penalty. This was not justice and no amount of lame apologetic rationalizations is going to excuse the sheer primativeness of much of these laws. Frankly, I'm disgusted that you attempt to palm this off on God. It's clearly primitive jurisprudence. There were improvements over Hamurabi and earlier codes but that doesn't make it God's law.
I understand you want to believe you have a book from God and that God is good and so everything in the book is true. This is embracing childish nonsense and supersition and leads you into all sorts of silly rationalizations. Grow up, start thinking and studying the world, history, science and realize that the fundamentalist inerrant position is childish, stupid, wrong, and leads to the kinds of tortured illogical things that you are posting in this thread.
I write this not in hatred of you but in righteous anger that you will not think but instead have to warp everything to support your emotional investment in taking a primitive book literally.
Grow up.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by riVeRraT, posted 11-12-2004 9:04 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:45 PM lfen has not replied

AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 246 of 306 (159197)
11-13-2004 8:15 PM
Reply to: Message 244 by riVeRraT
11-13-2004 8:08 PM


Lying?
RR, I looked back over the last few posts. I see no reason for you to accuse Rrhain of lying.
If he is repeating himself it might be because you aren't answering his points.
It looks from the outside like he's tied you into logical knots and you don't like it.
His accusation of your lying is based upon (unsupported for now, but it can be) that there is no reason in the world to think that homosexuality is a choice of any sort. It is not as evidenced in any study I am aware of 'brought on' by experiences. If you don't like being accused of lying then you need to undercut his basis for it. Otherwise it looks like you've been making things up (again)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:08 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 255 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:49 PM AdminNosy has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 247 of 306 (159198)
11-13-2004 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by The Dread Dormammu
11-13-2004 6:22 PM


Re: P.S.
Thanks Dread, and welcome to the forum. You can choose to ignore rhain at any given moment. He only picks on me because I am Christian.
Let me set a few things straight, and you can go back and read my posts. Only rhain would twist them around to make them sound otherwise. His logic is, that If I do not agree with Homosexuality, then I hate homo's.
Rape=bad
Homosexuality= I am no better than a homosexual. We all sin. If you commit one, you have commited them all. I do not hate Homosexual people, the person themselves, but I do not agree with the act. I do not agree with any sin, and would do whatever it takes to discourage it. With myself or with others. I will however not judge a person by his/her actions, I am in no position to do such. No matter what rhain thinks, I will not do that.
If I point something out in the bible that is against God, I am not condemming anyone. I profess that I am no better than that person. But that does not mean, that we cannot point these things out to each other.
So tell me, if you found out your wife enjoyed her being raped, what would you do? Truthfully.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-13-2004 6:22 PM The Dread Dormammu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by The Dread Dormammu, posted 11-14-2004 5:52 AM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 248 of 306 (159203)
11-13-2004 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by pink sasquatch
11-13-2004 7:29 PM


Re: Please
You too, need to put your train of thought back a couple thousand yearsm so that you could understand the statement.
All the verse is trying to say is, if you enjoy the rape, then you are really cheating, and you get stoned.
Forget all what you said.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-13-2004 7:29 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 252 by lfen, posted 11-13-2004 8:35 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 260 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-13-2004 9:15 PM riVeRraT has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 249 of 306 (159206)
11-13-2004 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by happy_atheist
11-13-2004 7:55 PM


Re: Please
It's ludicrous to suggest that not screaming equals consent and enjoyment.
Yes it is ludicrous, good thing I am not doing that.
Please tell me how you'd tell the difference between "not screaming because you love it" and "not screaming out of fear"?
I don't know, step inside my time machine and lets attempt to find out.
Its the year 600BC, and we are living in tents
(or we are sleeping on the desert floor). There are no cars honking, no TV, no noise of any type. We are living in a gun free community, were if a pin drops everyone will hear it. A woman screams rape in the middle of night. What should we do?
Is this helping you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by happy_atheist, posted 11-13-2004 7:55 PM happy_atheist has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 250 of 306 (159207)
11-13-2004 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 242 by pink sasquatch
11-13-2004 8:06 PM


Re: Please
You can compare them both, because they are both rules set forth by the Bible (and the same chapter I believe)...
Why do you follow one rule but not the other?
I follow the moral of both. You are just not getting the moral, but I'm sure you follow it too.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by pink sasquatch, posted 11-13-2004 8:06 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 251 of 306 (159208)
11-13-2004 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by happy_atheist
11-13-2004 8:06 PM


Re: Please
Can you tell me the moral of homosexuality?
Now tell me the literal meaning of homosexuality.
Go ahead.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by happy_atheist, posted 11-13-2004 8:06 PM happy_atheist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by happy_atheist, posted 11-13-2004 9:01 PM riVeRraT has replied

lfen
Member (Idle past 4677 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 252 of 306 (159209)
11-13-2004 8:35 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by riVeRraT
11-13-2004 8:22 PM


Re: Please
All the verse is trying to say is, if you enjoy the rape, then you are really cheating, and you get stoned.
Ah, when you put it that way the justice is quite clear. um??? but I've forgotten, since it's so just, why aren't we currently stoning women who are raped and don't scream???? Probably because we don't listen to the Bible and love God enough. We have so slacked off from righteousness. I'm ashamed to admit that I've never done my duty and stoned anyone to death. Guess I'll just have to go hell for my lack of righteousness.
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:22 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 254 by Coragyps, posted 11-13-2004 8:46 PM lfen has not replied
 Message 256 by riVeRraT, posted 11-13-2004 8:52 PM lfen has replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 253 of 306 (159213)
11-13-2004 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by lfen
11-13-2004 8:10 PM


Re: Please
What the Bible seems to say is that a woman must scream or face the death penalty.
No, that is not what they are saying, not at all.
Should a woman scream if she knew in a heartbeat she would be saved?
If there is someone around to hear her screams and ave her, shouldn't she indeed scream?
If no-one is around to hear her scream, then whos going to stone her? Who's going to prove that she didn't scream? Its her word against her rapists.
Why is everyone missing the point? Is the world that screwd up, that we can't understand a simple moral, even though we follow that moral today? Why do I get called dumb for being the only one who understands this moral?
I understand you want to believe you have a book from God and that God is good and so everything in the book is true. This is embracing childish nonsense and supersition and leads you into all sorts of silly rationalizations. Grow up, start thinking and studying the world, history, science and realize that the fundamentalist inerrant position is childish, stupid, wrong, and leads to the kinds of tortured illogical things that you are posting in this thread.
Wow dude, just wow.
You think for one second that I am so stupid, that I fell for all that crap in the bible? You think it is all non-sense?
I say that you are the one that needs to look at the world around you. Keep looking.
When you are on your death bed, lets see what you think then.
Matthew 22:14
"For many are invited, but few are chosen."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by lfen, posted 11-13-2004 8:10 PM lfen has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 254 of 306 (159214)
11-13-2004 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by lfen
11-13-2004 8:35 PM


Re: Please
I'm ashamed to admit that I've never done my duty and stoned anyone to death. Guess I'll just have to go hell for my lack of righteousness.
I'll bet you even let your neighbors that work as nurses and police on the Sabbath go unstoned. Apostate!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by lfen, posted 11-13-2004 8:35 PM lfen has not replied

riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 255 of 306 (159216)
11-13-2004 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 246 by AdminNosy
11-13-2004 8:15 PM


Re: Lying?
It looks from the outside like he's tied you into logical knots and you don't like it.
Its anything but logical.
He is a liar, and he admits it. He has also accused me of lying, with no proof, only speculation. I have chosen to not respond to his posts anymore, because they are the farthest thing from intelligent conversation. I have a life, and I have donated enough time to his side of the arguement on this subject.
I think he just cut and pasted his response from round 1 of this thread.
He only keeps accusing me of bad things, that are simply not true. When does it end?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by AdminNosy, posted 11-13-2004 8:15 PM AdminNosy has not replied

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