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Author
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Topic: Validity of differing eyewitness accounts in religious texts
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 2 of 305 (201895)
04-24-2005 6:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by CK
04-24-2005 6:03 PM
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Approved by AdminJar
and moved here from PNT.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by CK, posted 04-24-2005 6:03 PM | | CK has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 5 of 305 (201975)
04-24-2005 10:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by mick
04-24-2005 10:16 PM
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It would be great if we had some muslim scholars or imams contributing here. It would also be great if we could get input from Hindu and Buddhist sources. And of course you're right. The Koran does have the same Authority as the Bible.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by mick, posted 04-24-2005 10:16 PM | | mick has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 9 of 305 (201985)
04-24-2005 10:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
04-24-2005 10:49 PM
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What authority does Genesis have?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Faith, posted 04-24-2005 10:49 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 11 by Faith, posted 04-24-2005 11:06 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 10 of 305 (201986)
04-24-2005 10:57 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by mick
04-24-2005 10:53 PM
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I hate that idea.
The goal is not to take Faith apart, that's both foolish and counter productive. The idea is to learn from them, to see their viewpoints and their prespective on GOD and on the machine called religion.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by mick, posted 04-24-2005 10:53 PM | | mick has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by mick, posted 04-24-2005 11:11 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 12 of 305 (201993)
04-24-2005 11:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
04-24-2005 11:06 PM
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IMHO it's not off topic at all. We are trying to determine the validity of various eywitness accounts. So once again, what authority does Genesis have?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Faith, posted 04-24-2005 11:06 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 14 by Faith, posted 04-24-2005 11:25 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 55 of 305 (202158)
04-25-2005 9:40 AM
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Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
04-25-2005 1:47 AM
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Re: Moses' knowledge of the Creation
Okay. So Moshe got it from GOD and that gives it some authority?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 1:47 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 76 of 305 (202254)
04-25-2005 2:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 75 by Checkmate
04-25-2005 2:40 PM
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Re: Back to the point
Well, you have a little chronology problem there, the same one that Christians have who claim that Jesus was a Christian. Jesus was a Jew. Neither Islam or Christianity existed during his lifetime.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by Checkmate, posted 04-25-2005 2:40 PM | | Checkmate has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 79 of 305 (202263)
04-25-2005 3:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
04-25-2005 3:00 PM
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Re: Back to the point
Moshe, a Jew, is a Prophet of Jews, Muslims and Christians. Whether or not he really existed, is a single individual or a composite heroic figure is open to discussion.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 77 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 3:00 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 86 of 305 (202274)
04-25-2005 3:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Checkmate
04-25-2005 3:20 PM
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Re: Back to the point
No, you can't. But what the hell do any of those questions have to do with anything anyway. I know that Muhammad had no trouble recognizing the existence of either Jews or Christians, particularly the times when they saved his sweet ass. Listen. I happen to think that Islam is a great path to GOD, as are Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Confucianism and many others. If you are on the path, walk with joy. But save the bullshit for someone who's buying. I have no more tolerance for Islamic Fundamentalists than for Christian Fundamentalists.
Please do not respond in kind to the above paragraph. --Admin There are many parts of the Koran I admire greatly. For example, the accounts of the Garden of Eden in the Koran are far more even handed in the treatment of women than those in Genesis. But the Map is not the Territory. The Koran is NOT GOD. This message has been edited by Admin, 04-25-2005 02:38 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Checkmate, posted 04-25-2005 3:20 PM | | Checkmate has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 95 of 305 (202295)
04-25-2005 4:11 PM
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What about the religions where there is a large body of eye witness accounts
In particular, the Eastern religions which are almost all accounts of discussions. Buddha, Confuciouos, Lao Zi, Mencius, Mo Tzu are all historical charachters that are very well documented. Their lives and body of work extended over far longer period than Jesus, they all started their missions at around the same ages (although Muhammad was slightly older when he had his revelation) and they all produced large bodies of text that have survived. Is there any reason that their material should not carry the same weight as the Judaic texts (Tanakah, Bible and Koran) and should not be considered as authoritative?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 96 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 4:24 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 305 (202299)
04-25-2005 4:29 PM
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Reply to: Message 96 by Faith
04-25-2005 4:24 PM
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Re: What about the religions where there is a large body of eye witness accounts
But they are witnessed. Each of these people had students who learned from them, many forming their own schools. Much of what they wrote was copied down by other eye witnesses and they moved freely about visiting both the meek and mighty. How is that ANY different than anything included in the Bible?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 4:24 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 100 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 5:08 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 104 of 305 (202323)
04-25-2005 5:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 100 by Faith
04-25-2005 5:08 PM
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Re: What about the religions where there is a large body of eye witness accounts
But then there is a problem. If you are talking about eyewitness testimony of events, then the Bible is certainly flawed. Genesis 1 contradicts Genesis 2. There are two different eyewitness reports of the Flood and they contradict each other. And on and on. There is no eye witness account of creation. There is no eye witness account of what lead to the alleged flood. No eye witness accounts of what happened in the Garden. How can you assign greater authority to the Bible than any other such document? It's fine to say "That is what you believe" but that is simply a statement of belief, no more, no less.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 100 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 5:08 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 106 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 5:42 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 107 of 305 (202333)
04-25-2005 5:46 PM
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Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
04-25-2005 5:42 PM
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Re: What about the religions where there is a large body of eye witness accounts
It can't be an eye witness account. At best it is second hand information. You say it has validity because Moshe got it from GOD. Is that correct?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 106 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 5:42 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 110 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 6:01 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 113 of 305 (202347)
04-25-2005 6:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
04-25-2005 6:08 PM
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Say What?
They plagiarized them and rewrote them. I thought they got them the same way Mary and Joseph got word?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 112 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 6:08 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 117 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 6:25 PM | | jar has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 121 of 305 (202362)
04-25-2005 6:35 PM
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Reply to: Message 118 by Faith
04-25-2005 6:26 PM
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Re: What about the religions where there is a large body of eye witness accounts
But they are not Christian stories Faith, they are Jewish stories. And the Muslims did not displace the Christians. Christians, Jews and Muslims have lived in the middle East together all along. Christians and Jews helped Muhammad establish Islam.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 118 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 6:26 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 126 by Faith, posted 04-25-2005 9:15 PM | | jar has not replied |
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