Faith,
If we cannot tell if a historical text is true or false, then it cannot help us to deduce the truth or falsity of any given proposal.
One CAN tell, but YOU apparently can't if you make the perfectly asinine statement that nobody can tell whether Moses existed or not, the kind of asinine statement that the majority around here seem addicted to.
You seem to forget that you wrote
You can't tell real history from fiction, a genuine witness report from a hoax.
Given that you think the bible is a historical account, it would be difficult to catch you out in such a colossal contradiction.
Then, after that, in post 266, you write
Prove the coins were minted in that particular time by those particular entities. Probably minted hundreds of years later. No proof in any case that they depict someone who ever lived. You have no way of proving this, therefore she never existed. All a myth invented by the aristocracy to give the people a national identity and keep them in line.
It is not possible to assume a more hypocritical position. I can't tell the difference, but I can, oh wait! I can't after all
Will Faith's actual position please stand up.
So can I tell a real history from fiction, or not? If yes, please tell me why you have contradicted yourself so completely in consecutive posts. If no, then the following statement from my last post stands.
If we cannot tell if a historical text is true or false, then it cannot help us to deduce the truth or falsity of any given proposal. Moreover, if we cannot tell if a historical text is true or false, then pretty obviously we don't know if the alleged testimony is actual testimony, rather than a hoax. Therefore, the "testimony" cannot therefore be considered evidence because, as you have admitted, we cannot tell it from a hoax, & it cannot help us deduce the truth or falsity of anything.
To put it another way. Evidence is data that supports a hypothesis, since something that cannot be shown to be true or false (by your own admission) cannot possibly support any hypothesis, your alleged "testimony" cannot be considered evidence.
Oh blah blah blah to your sophomoric lecture on evidence.
Indeed.
Oh really? Give me an example. You can't come up with ONE record of their existence. Come on, show me. Prove it. They are nothing but mythological figures invented to provide a romance for the peoples involved. Did Attila write anything? Did Ghenghis Khan? Produce their writings! For Moses we have five books of writings. Did Cleopatra write anything? Did somebody who knew them personally write about them? Why should I believe anything anybody wrote anyway? Why should I believe anything anybody says about anyone? These guys were all bigger than life. They simply couldn't have existed. Come on, produce the evidence!
Again, you miss the point, which is to have independent evidence of the persons existence. I will take Cleopatra as an example. Cleopatra is mentioned by Plutarch in the Life of Mark Anthony, Suetonius also, in The Life of Augustus. Flavius Josephus mentions her in Bellum Judaicum VII, & Antiquitates Judaicae XIV-XV. Appianus: Bella Civilia III-V. Auctor Belli Alexandrini: 33. Appians Roman History (books 2-5), Do Cassius' Roman History , Velleius Paterculus, Roman History, Julius Caesar's own memoirs, to name the few contemporary accounts I found during a quick google.
That she actually existed is not in question, there is ample independent, contemporary evidences (Mark Anthony & Julius would have been enough to make the point) of her existence, not so Moses.
FIND JUST ONE record of the existence ANY of those human beings listed that couldn't be shown to be a mere fiction. Come on, prove it. Take your own medicine.
See above. & I always take my own medicine, Faith, we call it consistency. Unlike your we can’t tell real history from fiction because it suits you in one post, followed by oh yes we can in the next, followed, by, "oh no we can't" in the next.
Unrelated people? Let me guess that any original records you could conceivably find (and you can't even find one) would be by people who were related, people who claim to have been ravaged by the first two for instance, or people who get a kick out of having a Cleopatra in their tribe, though she's just a fiction they invented. Find me reports from anyone who isn't part of a tribe with a vested interest in maintaining these myths. Come on, prove it.
Done.
This is the point, Moses et al exist nowhere outside of a religious book. The book he appears in is internally inconsistent & makes fantastic claims. I need more.
More than 66 INDEPENDENT books written over 1500 years, over half of which refer back to Moses, more than millions who have believed it as fact, more than all the Jews who have believed it, among whom thousands have been named after Moses (How many have been named after Attila the Hun?), more than I don't know how many commentaries on the Pentateuch that treat him as a historical figure. Moses is VERY well attested to, FAR better than Attila the Hun et.al.
The careful reader will notice that I wrote, Moses
et al exist nowhere outside of a religious book. This under no definition of the phrase can be considered Very well attested. Once again, the bible CANNOT verify itself.
But for the record, how can any book, independent or otherwise, be considered eyewitness testimony when written 1,500 years after the event? You really don’t have the foggiest logical notion of what is meant by, independent corroborating evidence, do you?
Since I completed your challenge, perhaps you would be so good as to show me the extra-biblical evidence of Moses, that independent evidence?
This "religious book" is predominantly a HISTORY.
So says you, unfortunately there is no
reason whatsoever to believe it is nothing more than a book of myths. Again, the bible cannot verify itself. That historical figures exist in it (I’m thinking Herod, Pontius, etc) in no way means that the rest of it is true. In fact, that the actual historical records do not verify the bibles account
when it should, should tell you all you need to know.
Lots of fiction is set against a historical background. Don’t you find it odd that all the fantastic things in the bible that most certainly would get all the ancients quills scribbling on their papyrus, never seem to?
Mark
There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
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