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Author Topic:   God and Satan
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 48 of 110 (491629)
12-18-2008 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by caldron68
12-15-2008 9:23 PM


Re: What is your damn point ICAN?
Past tense. He loved his creation, knew exactly what he had created and then threw man out on his ear for a small infraction of the rules.
Some of us (Christians) do no see Adam's act as "a small infraction of the rules". Rather he brought a kind of poison into man which assured that his discendents would be constituted with an evil foreign nature.
For example, if a mother warns a child not to drink a bottle of poison, and the child disobeys, it has two problems:
1.) An infraction of the mother's rule.
2.) The system of the child has been poisoned.
The constitution of man's being having been altered created a huge problem. It even plunged the creation into disharmony. While I don't understand everything about this, I do understand that the act of Adam caused humanity and the natural environment to collapse.
Secondly, the Bible's teaching on this is not as frivolous as you would like to make it. The principle of one man's act having universal enfluence on mankind worked not only against humanity but also for humanity.
If you read Romans chapter 5 you will see that Christ's act of obedience has an opposite effect in constituting millions righteous before God and insuring that they can become "partakers of the divine nature"
So the same principle that worked against us God uses to work for us (who believe the work of salvation which He has done).
God gave a sacrifice for us
ONLY AFTER DROWNING US, BURNING US AND PUTTING US TO THE SWORD. And even then ONLY in a symbolic way did he give us Jesus as a sacrifice.
You seem to be excercising you skill to look at the ironinc and negative side of things. You would probably make a good satirist or comedian as this is a skill they need to be successful.
But you personally were not drowned. You personally have not been burned. And maybe you should start by looking back over the last, let us say, year. Think of how many things you could possibly be thankful to God for.
I mean even though there have been some problems in your life God has also provided you with many days of happiness. Discussing theological themes with you would be improved of you could get a little of that cynical bias out of your thoughts.
As you look back over the last year, is there nothing for which you could possibly be thankful to God?
Now concerning Christ's death. It is not just symbolic but it is applicable. When you receive the Spirit of the resurrected Christ into your human spirit, that death He experienced on the cross actually acts to kill off spiritual and psychological germs which are working in you. You, as one who is indwelt with by Jesus, can actially learn to utlize what He did on the cross to crucify bad habits and kill off harmful character traits until you are transformed into a person who expresses Jesus in his living.
This is not to mention that His shed blood can cleanse a man's entire life's record of every sin from before God. The believer in Jesus is viewed by God as having ALREADY been judged. He is before God as if he had never sinned.
This has tremendous benefits, one of which is eternal life.
And what of those people who will never hear the word? Are they condemned to hell too? Too bad God decided to make himself known to only those in a very small, remote corner of the Earth and then only to the chosen few. Everybody else, too freakin bad.
This is not a problem. But some more reading of the Bible seriously would help you.
No one comes to the Father except through Jesus Christ. But Jesus Christ is a living Person. So if anyone anywhere in the world comes to the Father it will be through Jesus Christ.
Having said that, you should realize that that is different from saying "No one comes to the Father except through Christianity."
I don't worry anymore about trying to assure every hypothetical situation. The Judge of the whole earth will do justly.
An evangelist like me would tend to remind you that whatever the situation of those people is, that is not your situation. So as one who needs to decide what to do with His offer of salvation, you have to consider not their situation, but your situation. You have heard the good news that Jesus is the Savior, the Lord.
As an evangelist I would say then, what will you do with Jesus the living Person? You are NOT the blind, deaf, and dumb aboriginal in the forests of the Amazon in 500 BC. What will you do with Christ in your situation?
Right, God had already done that. There wasn't anything left for Jesus to condemn. Oh! but wait there's more. God DOES promise to send Jesus back to Earth (Jesus 2.0 if you will) where he WILL condemn the world and everything upon it. How many cold starts does God need to get it right?
You're not as clever as you think you are. Should I assume that your cleverness also means that you are wise?
While all this time is elapsing between the first physical coming of Christ and the second physical return of Christ, He is amassing an army.
God uses time to spread the gospel of grace to all the world.
Of course once one is forgiven he may not voluntarily turn over all of his being to be saturated with the divine nature that Christ has brought into him. Since some will cooperate with sanctification and some will not, those who will will be rewarded to riegn with Christ over the earth in His return. They are called those who overcome.
The defeated ones will be disciplined but they will not lose their gift of eternal redemption.
So the time elapsing is used by Christ to accumlate enough overcoming ones down through the ages to be co-kings with Him in His millennial kingdom. They are more than conquerors and are awarded the honor of sharing His coming reign over the recovered earth for 1,000 years.
If you read carefully you'll see that before the age of eternity (Revelation 21 and 22) there is the preliminary 1,000 years millennial kingdom.
Those through the ages since Christ's incarnation, life, death, resurrection, and ascension, will not be disappointed nor feel they wasted their lives. This corporate victorious army taken from all those saved ones who were cooperative in the church age, will be the Manchild (Rev. 12) of overcomers who will co-reign with the King of kings.
The world was already condemned
Yes, by the ever loving creator.
Let me stop here and ask you about your beliefs.
Why are you here on the earth? I mean for what purpose were you born?
If you have something superior to the eternal purpose of God in Christ, I would like to hear about it.
So please tell us. What is the meaning of your existence here? Why does your heart beat and your lungs breath?
You may have something better than living unto God. What is it?
Here's your chance to enlighten me what the real deal is. Go for it. I am all ears.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by caldron68, posted 12-15-2008 9:23 PM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by caldron68, posted 12-18-2008 9:03 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 50 of 110 (491665)
12-19-2008 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by caldron68
12-18-2008 9:03 PM


Re: What is your damn point ICAN?
God set up the system, placed Adam and Eve within the system and told them not to eat of the fruit. Adam and Eve are like children at this point and do not understand the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. They are tempted to eat of the fruit by another of God's creations (Lucifer/Satan) and are punished severely for doing so.
You are suggesting that there should be no consequences for disobedience to God - He should warn of something but not inforce it.
Besides what you call "punished severely" was largly the result of being corrupted by being placed under another master.
Not only are Adam and Eve individually punished, but all of mankind is punished because of a child like disobedience.
And the same principle works on our behalf in Christ. Not only is the Son of God righteous before God but those united with Him are justified.
Besides this our troubles are due mostly to not agreeing with God that we are sinners. No He is not condemning us for eating of the forbidden tree as Adam per se. We are condemned because savation has come and we refuse to believe in Christ. We reject the salvation in disbelief.
Your analogy of this action does not even come close to covering what happened to Adam, Eve and the rest of mankind.
It comes pretty close. The Apostle Paul said that the evil spirit is now operating in the sons of disobedience:
"And you, dead in your offenses and sins, in which you once walked according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience, Among whom we also all conducted ourselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath." (Eph.2:1-3).
Here the Satanic spirit is the "ruler of the authority of the air". But this evil being is "operating in the sons of disobedience". That is akin to poison operating in victim's body. And it is constituting the victim a child of wrath - headed for judgment because of the many offenses committed.
So the analogy of internalized poison is IMO effective. I think it is more effective than speaking of "a minor infraction".
"For just as through the disobedience of one man the many were CONSTITUTED sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the many will be CONSTITUTED righteous" (Rom.5 19)
When some people complain about so called "Original Sin" I try to point them to the parellel "Original Righteousness" in Jesus Christ.
For your analogy to work, the Mother would not only have to punish the child for being disobedient, but she would also have to punish the child's children and then their children's children etc, etc..
What I notice is that immediatly after the unfortunate fall occured God promises to crush the instigator. He promises salvation. He did not wait 2000 years to promise. He did so right away.
"And I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed; He will bruise you on the head, But you will bruise him on the heel." (Genesis 3:15)
We certainly take this as a prophecy of the coming of the Son of God. For He alone was a woman's seed having been born of a virgin. All other places in the Bible only speak of a man's seed.
His coming crushes the enemy but causes His own death and resurrection to take place in the process. He bruise the Devil's head but is bruised on His heel at Calvary doing so.
"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8)
When we receive Christ He begins to destroy the work of the ruler of the authority of the air in us. The Spirit of Christ begins to operate in us nullifying the work of the Satanic spirit. It is truly wonderful when we believe and cooperate.
Of course I was not personally drowned or burned or put to the sword. That's not the point. The point is that these things DID happen.
It is against the backround of God's manifest hatred for sin that we can appreciate what it meant for Christ to die for all the sins of the whole world. So I think that instances like the flood were needed to teach us that sin is an abomination to God and what it meant for Christ to carry up our sins in His body onto the cross.
It's right there in the book and it cannot be ignored.
I am not ignoring it at all. The terrible conquest of Canaan, the flood of Noah, the judgment of Sodom, all these firmly establish God's righteous execution against sins. But seeing His hatred for it helps me to understand what it meant for Him to send Jesus to carry up all of our sins to be judged on His cross at Calvary.
That is ONE atoning act which is able to justify every human sinner throughout all human history. That was a tremendous act of love that will take eternity for us to appreciate.
But God had to demonstrate and establish that sins are an abomination to Him. The judgments in the Old Testament help us to see this.
It is too bad that you don't pay adaquate attention to Noah, family and animals in the ark. It is too bad that you don't notice Rehab and the whore house saved by His mercy at Jericho. It is too bad that you did not also notice the saving of Lot, his wife and daughters from Sodom.
A little attention to the other aspects of these stories I think would round your thinking out a little more. You seem overly bitter.
Perhaps you can overlook these devious deeds because you THINK that God has blessed you and your life.
I do not charge God with any devious deeds. I believe that God is absolutely righteous. He is absolutely right. It is almost terrible.
We have arrived in a universe of a God who is not only eternal and holy and glorious as a Creator. But He is absolutely just and righteous.
There are things which are hard for me to understand. I admit that. But all in all I have been convinced that God is absolutely righteous. Furthermore, He gave life. He alone is most qualified to take it away.
When I look at the life of Jesus Christ who is God become a man, I do see that He is so righteous and good and merciful. But He is just and cared nothing for Himself but only for the will of His Father in an absolute way. I came to the Old Testament through the study of Jesus in the New Testament first, I think.
I can't. Yes, good things have happened to me in my life but I don't automatically assume that these things are the direct result of a loving, compassionate God.
You cannot authomatically say 'Thank you God'. But just in case there is this God I don't see how it could hurt to be thankful. What would you lose?
If one prayed "Just in case there is a God, I want to thank this God that I have a sound mind, no cancer, I am able to see, I have many fortunate things which I take for granted. Others in fact may not be so fortunate." I don't see what you have to lose. But it is up to you.
God is not going away because some people don't want to be thankful or because they wish or hope there is no God. I know one is happier giving thanks to God, and with far less anxiety about life.
The good things that have happened to me are a direct result of plain old hard work.
Then could thank God for good health which allows you to rise up out of bed in the morning and go to work.
Again, it is your choice, But I have found that I was much happier and with much less anxiety when I learned to be thankful to God. Mostly I thank Him for Himself.
How can you possibly enter into a loving relationship with God when you know that he ordered the murder of children and infants?
I love my earthly dad. Though there were instances when I did not understand what he was doing.
If you want to read through the Bible and only consider His harshest acts that is up to you. There is more than plenty of instances of mercy, patience, kindness, forebearance, long suffering showed by God in the Bible.
Did you read about Jesus?
And more than once, I might add. Of course, you'll find some way to squirm out of this problem and I can't wait to hear the answer.
I don't need to squirm. The Bible says "Behold the kindness and severity of God". I consider Him, like anyone else, would have not just one side of His character, but more than one side.
If you insist that from the first page of Genesis, through all 66 books of the Bible you see nothing but slaughtering children, I would say that tells me more about you than it does about God.
Canaan's adults were warned and judged. God told Abraham that He would not judge them for another 400 years because their iniquities had not yet gotten so bad. Then after four centries of God's forebearance He added an additional 40 years as the Canaanites saw the Israel wander in the wildreness.
THat is at least 440 years of God's patient forebearance before He brought in the judgment up that society.
Now the killing of the babies is really harsh. I do not ignore that. But I do not think that that effected their resurrection and status for eternal life. Somehow, I trust the He is just and fair though those kids were killed.
I wonder if you show a similar concern for the millions of innocent children aborted.
Once again, I think it would round you off a little to consider the latter pages of the Bible in the Gospels and examine the life of Jesus. He is God become a man and dwelling among us.
How did He conduct Himself ? You might consider the Gospel of Luke.
If you want to stay stuck on the conquest of Canaan in Joshua no one can stop you. As for me, I want to continue reading to see what else happens.
Incidently, did you recall that there is one whole book set aside and dedicated to the subject of God's RELUCTANCE to judge a nation? That is the book of Jonah. This entire book is reserved for that subject. Israel's prophet Jonah was eager that their enemies would "get it" from God. But God shows His reluctance. He would rather have mercy on a repentent nation.
So the point was aptly made that He takes no pleasure in harsh judgment but would delight to forgive. Think on it just a little and read Jonah too.
Oh please!! This is a huge problem. Your basic advice here is not to worry about those that have not heard the word and worry about myself.
Our commission as believers is to go into all the world and preach the Gospel. As an unbeliever in Christ (I only assume of you) you first need to respond your own self, to the coming of Christ.
It is good that you are concerned about everyone else. But you can do nothing about it yet. As it is your mouth is spreading more and more unbelief, probably. Your arguments could be the reason that more will not turn to Jesus. Their minds will be poisoned by your slanders against God and opposition to the Gospel.
So first you need to be reconciled to God.
If no one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ, then a whole lot of people are NOT going to come to the Father. Of course, you as a Christian absolutely believe that your way is the right way and the only reason you believe that is because that's how you were raised.
It is not because I simply was raised that way in all regards. I had my period of staunch unbelief and agnosticism.
Secondly, even if I WAS raised to be a believer in Jesus, that in and off itself does not mean that the Gospel therefore cannot be true. One can raise a child to believe that which is truth.
Lastly, I do not think that the only angle from which one can understand the Bible is through the question "Who gets saved and Who gets lost?" I don't think that is the only lense through which one can appreciate the Person of Jesus.
My coming to Jesus initially was not about getting saved from damnation. That was not the issue. It was being saved from the emptiness of a hollow life. I think a life without Christ is vanity. We have a God shaped whole in our being that only He can fill.
Many people receive Jesus for this reason. It is not pie in the sky which is important, or heavenly afterlife. It was a thirst for life's fulness and richness which attracted me to Jesus.
Now in the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes into Me, as the Scripture said, out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.
But this He said concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were about to receive; for the Spirit was not yet, because Jesus was not yet glorified." (John 7:38,39)
I am thrilled to be able to have the Spirit of this Son of God flowing in me as rivers of living water. He is so beautiful and victorious. He is not only a good man. He is gloriously good with divine splendour. He is such a man - a man who expresses the highest morality and the divine attributes. His human virtues are glorious.
What a honor that I could receive His Spirit into me to live in me. For Jesus is in a form in which we can receive Him into our innermost spirit - "the last Adam [Christ] became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
I simply have found nothing and no one as valuable or as precious as Jesus. Nothing can compete with Him. Nothing can compare with Him. And He quenches my thirst for life.
He said He would flow out of our innermost being as rivers of living water. That is plural rivers. There is a river for my mind. There is a river for my emotions. There is a river for my will. There is a river for my memory. There is a river for my conscience. There is even a river for my body.
He said: "I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly." (John 10:10)
You heard the song "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" by the Rolling Stones. Life on earth without the Holy Spirit of the resurrected Jesus is really void of the deep satisfaction that we all need.
You heard Jimi Hendrix sing:
"I don't live today. Maybe I'll live tomorrow. All I know is that I don't live today. I feel like I am living at the bottom of a grave.".
How true. Without the Holy Spirit we really are "dead in offenses and sins".
You heard the song about the man "Searching for a Heart of Gold. I've been to Red Wood. I've been to Hollywood. I've been searching for a heart of gold. And I'm getting old!"
How true. I tell you that this Jesus Christ is the "Heart of Gold.". He loves you and died and rose for you.
Forgive me. But I am going to cut off posting now and go to my knees and pray for you. I'm a kind of debating evangelist, you know?
Talk with you latter perhaps. Maybe I'll respond to your other comments.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by caldron68, posted 12-18-2008 9:03 PM caldron68 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-19-2008 8:50 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 56 by Bailey, posted 12-19-2008 11:36 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 52 of 110 (491692)
12-19-2008 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Dawn Bertot
12-19-2008 8:50 AM


Re: What is your damn point ICAN?
Thanks Bertot.
I do not do computer programming anymore.
I teach music lessons.
I try to pray about what I write.
I was many years a student of Witness Lee. We all tend to
to sound like him, a fact of which I have no shame.
The footnotes of the Bible The Recovery Version has many many of these things written in it in its voluminous study notes.
The Holy Bible Recovery Version
The future is opened to possibilies.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-19-2008 8:50 AM Dawn Bertot has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-19-2008 6:24 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 53 of 110 (491694)
12-19-2008 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by caldron68
12-18-2008 9:03 PM


Re: What is your damn point ICAN?
Revelations is a crock of crap and has been dismissed by a very large list of famous evangelicals and critical thinkers, including, but not limited to:
Robert G. Ingersoll
Thomas Jefferson
Martin Luther
John Calvin
Here the reference: Book of Revelation - Wikipedia
We know better.
This is beneath argument.
It's vile, it's offensive and it proves the point that God is cruel and capricious.
We know better.
This comment should not be dignified with a reply.
This book is the Revelation of Jesus Christ. It is not primarily the revelation of horns, locusts, frogs, dragons, earthquakes.
You just don't know what to look for.
Ok, here it is with both barrels. I CAN LIVE MY LIFE IN A JUST AND MEANINGFUL MANNER AND NO GOD THREATENING ME WITH ETERNAL DAMNATION IS REQUIRED. HOW'S THAT?
Notice though you did not tell us what that meaning was.
You just shouted that you can live without fear of damnation and threats, etc.
Seems your Bible is very short, like this:
"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And God kills some babies. And the rest of you are going to burn in hell forever.
THE END"
It is a stupid caricature, a myopic one sided biased view.
I doubt that you have even read much of the Bible at all. In fact I have doubts about your reading comprehension of anything over a few sentences long, let alone a library of 66 books.
Evidently YOU cannot live your life this way. You require a God looking at your every action because you believe that that is what's happening and instead of being good for the very sake of being good, you're good because you believe it will buy you brownie points with the big man upstairs.
I notice that you didn't say what the meaning of your life was.
Why is that?
I believe that living the Christian life is an honorable way of living your life. Just keep your beliefs out of my government and schools.
Looks to me like you're the one living in dread glancing over the shoulder all the time.
Who said anything about your schools?
The place to learn about God is in church and NOT in our public schools.
That's like "The place to learn about gravity is only the science class room. No where else is it relevant."
Dumb.
Concerned about creationism vs. evolution? Teach your side in church, and as you said, don't worry about those that don't hear the word.
Cheers,
Boy are you a media brainwashed reactionary - a one note ideology.
Cheer up already.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by caldron68, posted 12-18-2008 9:03 PM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by caldron68, posted 12-19-2008 5:46 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1931 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 57 of 110 (491709)
12-20-2008 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by caldron68
12-19-2008 5:46 PM


Re: What is your damn point ICAN?
You know better than John Calvin and Martin Luther? Really?
Some things, yea. Does that shock you?
God is moving on. He is moving on from the days of Calvin and Luther. He is still opening the Bible's meaning to us. As we draw closer and closer to the second coming of Christ, things which were less clear become more clear.
Ahhh, so now we discover the real problem. If you hadn't noticed from my previous posts, I think you tend to gloss over the bad and glorify the good. Do you have any critical thinking skills at all?
Make your case then.
WOW! Now that really stings. Here we've only exchanged a few paragraphs and you have doubts about my ability to comprehend anything over a few sentences long! I should say the same about you. Your sentence structure mistakes and spelling errors say a lot about you.
I think you're very biased.
Now while you distract the issue about my spelling and sentence structure, get busy and finish what I asked - that is to explain why you are alive and what your purpose in this world is. That is if you have something better than believing Christ.
I'll except "I don't know" as a valid answer.
Now for me, God is "building" a "city" called New Jerusalem. You can read about it in Revelation 21 and 22. It is a symbol of the consummation of the purpose of His creating the universe and mankind in it. God wants to dispense His life into man so that man and God become a mingled and united entity.
This is the reason I was born, to build up this New Jerusalem for the enjoyment of man and the expression of God. This is called the "eternal purpose" of God in the New Testament.
I was walking around in daze before my inner eyes were opened by revelation to see New Jerusalem. I thought we were just here by some accident on a second rate planet, circling a second rate star which was eventually going to die out.
Modern thought and Darwinianism painted a bleak meaningless existence inspite of advancing technology. I know now that I was created to be a brother in life, nature, and expression with Jesus the Son of God.
Why are you here?
Myopic? I acknowledge both the good and the bad in the bible and it's my view that's myopic? Seems to me that it is YOUR view that is myopic.
Not so far, you haven't acknowledge anything beside hell and baby killing, that I can recall.
me:
I notice that you didn't say what the meaning of your life was.
Why is that?
you:
I'm an engineer Jaywill, not a philosopher. My life has meaning only to me and those that I love and provide for.
You've done already a good deal of hefty philosophizing I think about God, and the worthlessness of Him. You philosophized that it was useless to be thankful to any supposed God and that you have only your own hard work to thank for anything.
I think manifested your philosophy pretty strongly.
I live my life the same way you live your life. I do my best every single day to be as kind, compassionate and as honest as I can possibly be. I am judged by my family and by those I interact with on a daily basis. If I am also being judged by a supreme being, so be it, but i will not alter my behavior because that may be the case.
(Spelling Spelling! small i !) See I can notice errors too.
I have found that to alter behavior is one matter.
For a man to open his being and allow the Spirit of Christ to fill him so that he is tranformed is another matter. That is why Jesus spoke of a good tree bearing good fruit and a bad tree bearing bad fruit. The life one has spontenously produces the nature of that life.
The law of Moses was given to expose that man could not altar his behavior to be righteous according to God's standard of righteousness.
God's answer is regeneration Witness Lee & Watchman Nee teach regeneration - that is to dispense Christ into man. It is not behavior improvement but more like grafting a sick branch into a healthy tree. The life of the healthy tree flows into the branch and causes it to live well.
So when you imply that you are not going to grit your teeth and sweat and labor to alter your behavior, I agree with that 100%. The New Testament teaches that the need of man is to be born again with a new life in Christ to fill and saturate him.
Take your students over to the Creation Museum and introduce them to the solid science behind Young Earth Creationism. Don't forget to check your critical thinking skills at the door.
There you go! Great critical thinking skills displayed there. Assume that a group of rather vocal Young Earth Creationists must represent all Christians.
Can I do the same and suggest that you take your "students" somewhere to learn how to build faulty collapsing bridges?
Can I take a few lousy engineers and assume they represent the whole bunch of you all?
Double standard? You should have decided to be something else then when you found out that some engineers build structures wrong.
My reasons for believing in a more ancient earth are theological mostly and not due to dating methods. And you have no scientific fact which proves the falsity of this statement:
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
As a matter of fact with all the talk about catastrophies in earth's history and the extinction of species, it seems that science is inching close to what Genesis tells me -
"And the earth became waste and emptiness, and darkness was on the surface of the deep." (Gen 1:2 RcV) "became" in verse two. And a number of Hebrew scholars translate it that way.)
So if you need a few million years or a few billion, we can well see that in Genesis before verse two.
Of late I hear more about prehistoric killer gas, killer comets, killer asteroids, killer ice, killer volcanoes, etc.
Seems modern science theories are inching closer to what Genesis 1:2 discribes as the condition of the earth before it was prepared for man's existence.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by caldron68, posted 12-19-2008 5:46 PM caldron68 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Dawn Bertot, posted 12-20-2008 10:07 AM jaywill has not replied
 Message 63 by caldron68, posted 12-20-2008 12:18 PM jaywill has not replied

  
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