Faith and belief

I appreciate that. I haven't been able to put in as many woman-hours as I had anticipated, but I think I am finally ironing out my schedule. Beware!

Being Catholic, I believe God has already manifested Himself...{notice I say Himself}, and that His manifestation is Jesus Christ.Bear with ME here, because I see an interesting angle.Faith and belief are not enough to create reality. I will not buy that for more than a spare nickel. We all have subconscious thoughts and mental hang-ups, but you do yourself no justice.First you say: Then you illustrate with this: See how you change from 'focused' to 'subconscious' energy?I believe in the subconscious manifesting itself in life...we WILL do things without realizing why we do them. I believe in 'focus', and that ambition will get you what you desire in many cases.What I don't believe is that simply sitting on are arse and wishing for something can be profitable...BUT...and here is where it is interesting...if there is a God, He may well give us what we need just by our having a 'working' faith. God promised to take care of us just as He cares for the lilies and the sparrows. Think about it a bit and you will realize that our faith makes God manifest Himself to us. Jesus was only recognized to be God by those with faith.I don't get preachy much, but you must notice that God manifesting Hiself to those with faith is not the same as 'those with faith 'create' God. Boil this down to the bone, and you have your usual anti-religion argument 'is God purely a product of the minds of believers'?I don't believe He is. I don't believe we can or ever will 'manifest' Him, but that He comes and goes of His own power, in His own time, at His own discrepancy. I don't believe that one single experiment about water will do or say ANYTHING about God. Even if your experiment were true, which I highly doubt, so what? Do you think it follows that some weird property of water will stop religion dead in it's tracks? Do you think God must act like water?

A way we can all recognize? Why are you so convinced that people who are not 'projecting belief' will see anything that the believers do?Do we create our own 'reality', or someone else's?Do I have to wait around for you to help me 'see' God?

Depends what God is. How do we know that? I thought crucifixion was no longer legal? If you are waiting for humans to create this God, good luck. I don't. 'All-powerful' does not exclude these qualities. Only you don't realize that 'creating our own reality' is not a new concept. So by creatnig a better God, we will become better people? Maybe you see God as another human ideal like love or peace, rather than a being who possibly embodies our ideals?

Not at all. I replied to what you wrote. Thing is, in the 'real world' it is a lot easier to get away with broad generalizations of some 'God concept' than it is at EvC, where we have all picked our particular beliefs to the bone. You want to talk about God, I want to know "which God?" I am still trying to figure out which points you have made. Then please clarify. Are you actually looking for any debate? You just seem irked that people don't agree with you. What would be interesting to you?

Talk about old fashioned.

Instead, you found that EvC is more a collection of:A. cool rational people who consider all of it woo-woo
B. cool rational people who believe God is not Something WE can manifest
C. people with a diehard belief in a theory oppositional to yours No, I am asking for YOUR opinion, because I can't answer how God could manifest if I don't believe in a God who COULD manifest via our own 'energies'. You already know I believe in the same old same old Judeo-Christian Biblical God, which belief does not include this:

quote:

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The question was, 'how would the same energies that are manifesting in our lives would\could\are manifesting god'?

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so the onus is on you to exemplify the kind of 'god' that we can make up ourselves.

How am I trying to inflict my beliefs onto you?As to disputing your beliefs, well, you were the one that put them up on a debate site. I don't share what your beliefs appear to be, but I could care less if you change them or don't. If you want to discuss them in a public place, then yes, I am going to disagree nicely. So far, I have not been able to get a decent answer about what exactly you do believe, so I am mainly responding to your knee-jerk paranoia. That is a more loathesome trait in myself than any supposed intolerance, so pardon me if I cease to reply very shortly.

All I asked was for a little more description. A blind person has to at least understand the concept of colour. That comment was an 'if and when the situation occurs' comment. IOW, the forum has guidelines for behaviour, and I try to follow them, all the while debating. Perhaps we can move on to hearing more about the beliefs, rather than debating personalities? Yes, I agree, I recognize things which are part of my nature as well. I suffer from knee-jerk paranoia in plenty of areas. I used to have a great fear that I was hideously ugly. If someone comments on my appearance, I take it as a veiled slight no matter what. KNowing this about myself, I avoid being on display, and I would never go to a modeling agency whose sole business is to critique appearance.

Try 'Thread Re-Open Requests'.

Yes, I gave you something of myself outside of the debate arena in hopes that you would open up.I see that since you started this topic you have not talked at all about what you said you wanted to talk about. Do you want to talk about God and His possible manifestations or not? If you do, please respond to the requests for links, or to the requests for your description of God, or ANYTHING which is relevant.