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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 181 of 343 (381049)
01-29-2007 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Malachi-II
01-29-2007 4:41 PM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Malachi-II writes:

Yes, I am offended when someone challenges my sincerity.

Out of curiosity, who challenged your sincerity?


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Malachi-II, posted 01-29-2007 4:41 PM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 3:45 AM ringo has responded

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 372 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 182 of 343 (381084)
01-29-2007 6:50 PM


I ma doG!
Since we haven't managed to decide just what being a God requires, I shall give you my resume for the job.

I am alive. And I'm here right now. Oh, and I don't claim to be everyone's god. just the one for my followers--all trillion plus cells of my body. Isn't it great how they'll work for me, die for me, care for me?

Edited by kuresu, : my recent grammer screw up should not be counted against my application--esp. since we have no standard qualifications to begin with.

oh, added "it" in the last sentence


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Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 183 of 343 (381170)
01-30-2007 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by ringo
01-29-2007 5:10 PM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Ringo writes:

Out of curiosity, who challenged your sincerity?

It's a subtle indirect challenge. There is a useful technique employed, consciously or subconsciously, by some people. If, let’s say, someone takes the floor in a debate and attempts to introduce as succinctly as possible a fairly complex subject . The speaker, with genuine respect for his listeners, will have a reasonable expectation that a listener might ask a question or two regarding the core issue of his subject.

Often there will be one listener who, for questionable reasons, will jump straight in and immediately deflect attention away from the overall context of the subject and nit pick over grammar or semantics. In doing so the nitpicker skilfully draws attention to himself. The speaker is challenged to defend minutiae. The speaker’s core thought becomes lost in the ensuing discussion with the nitpicker.

It’s one of the oldest ‘debating’ techniques. It leads to confusion and misrepresentation. It reveals the fallacies of both speaker and listener. The technique is greatly encouraged, in my humble opinion, over internet forums such as this one. All members, including this idiot, are completely incognito. No one can read our body language, tone of voice, or search our eyes for give away signs. We are all safely hidden from the world. We can be anyone we like, say whatever we choose. We can lie through our teeth. We can give vent to our spleens to the world in the privacy of our lonely rooms.

My little excerpt was a feeble attempt to say that the only god I recognize is Creative Love. All living creatures have that essence within their innermost spirit. It cannot be said to exist in any known scientific terms, but the results of creative love are undeniably evident to all who decide to be actively aware.

Thank you for your genuinely sincere question. I decided to throw in the last paragraph for laughs. (Smile darn ya!)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by ringo, posted 01-29-2007 5:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Phat, posted 01-30-2007 5:29 AM Malachi-II has responded
 Message 187 by ringo, posted 01-30-2007 12:28 PM Malachi-II has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 184 of 343 (381177)
01-30-2007 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Malachi-II
01-30-2007 3:45 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Malachi--I am impressed! That was one of the clearest posts you have ever written! (Its almost a Post Of The Month! :D
This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 3:45 AM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 7:23 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 185 of 343 (381194)
01-30-2007 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 184 by Phat
01-30-2007 5:29 AM


Re: What are the duties of a God?
Phat writes:

Malachi--I am impressed! That was one of the clearest posts you have ever written! (Its almost a Post Of The Month!

Gosh! Thanks, Phat. I'll keep trying. I know I am very trying on people's patience. :)

PS I assume you're referring to the clear description of myself as an Idiot?

Edited by Malachi-II, : An after thought


This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Phat, posted 01-30-2007 5:29 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 186 of 343 (381225)
01-30-2007 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
01-22-2007 10:06 AM


Proposed new candidate
Candidate withdrawn.

Edited by Malachi-II, : On reflection it would float like a lead balloon


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 01-22-2007 10:06 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 188 by Phat, posted 01-30-2007 12:53 PM Malachi-II has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 187 of 343 (381262)
01-30-2007 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 183 by Malachi-II
01-30-2007 3:45 AM


Malachi-II writes:

The speaker, with genuine respect for his listeners....

Just to clarify, we're not required to have "genuine respect" for our listeners. We're only required to show respect. :D

... will have a reasonable expectation that a listener might ask a question or two regarding the core issue of his subject.

The problem is that we can't always see the "core issue of his subject" if his terminology is unclear. Hence the nitpickery.

You may also be familiar with the concept that I only have to break one of the legs of your table to make it fall over - even if it is a very tiny leg that you don't think is significant. :)

No one can read our body language, tone of voice, or search our eyes for give away signs.

That's what smilies are for. Do I need to increase my smilification for your benefit?
Here's one I don't use very often: :p

-------------

... the results of creative love are undeniably evident to all who decide to be actively aware.

Unfortunately, that doesn't constitute evidence in this proceeding.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 183 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 3:45 AM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 189 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 5:41 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 188 of 343 (381264)
01-30-2007 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Malachi-II
01-30-2007 9:31 AM


Re: Proposed new candidate
Malachi II writes:

If it please the committee, I should like to propose a new candidate for a place at the table.(whose name is, GOLD.)

Duly noted. You will have to hoist your deity on to the table and guard it, however. I am not responsible for your deity being heisted from these proceedings.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Malachi-II, posted 01-30-2007 9:31 AM Malachi-II has not yet responded

  
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 189 of 343 (381458)
01-31-2007 5:41 AM
Reply to: Message 187 by ringo
01-30-2007 12:28 PM


Ringo writes:

The problem is that we can't always see the "core issue of his subject" if his terminology is unclear. Hence the nitpickery.

The 'problem' is with people who cannot, or do wish, to recognize that nit-picking is intentional fault finding.

Help is available for sufferers of autism.

That's what smilies are for. Do I need to increase my smilification for your benefit? Here's one I don't use very often:

'Little smilies' are indicators, not true revealers of mood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by ringo, posted 01-30-2007 12:28 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 01-31-2007 7:53 AM Malachi-II has responded
 Message 191 by ringo, posted 01-31-2007 4:23 PM Malachi-II has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 10970
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 190 of 343 (381471)
01-31-2007 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Malachi-II
01-31-2007 5:41 AM


A Matter Of Belief
Here we be...a committee that has the unenviable task (or perhaps an enviable one) of selecting a Deity that can truly be shown to be God: The One and Only. (Unless we agree on pantheism, in which case we can all pat ourselves on the back and revel in a true oneness communion)

Malachi II writes:

'Little smilies' are indicators, not true revealer's of mood.

You would be amazed at the capabilities of one of these little icons! :D

Icons are thought to be Windows To Heaven in the Orthodox Christian tradition. Who would have thought that 1300 years later, people would actually communicate on computers using an operating system known as Windows and using smilies as icons? :rolleyes: On a semi serious note, however, I now call upon our various Deity candidates to one at a time attempt to best express themselves and touch us...proving to our own internal beliefs at least that they deserve to be loved, worshiped, and trusted.

If we as a committee are unable to agree on which God touched us or upon whether the touch was even experienced, we shall have to disassemble and resume our daily activities with this grand question in the universal scheme of things forever unresolved.

I felt something, but so far can only rule out Gold, since Gold can't move according to the latest research.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 5:41 AM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by kuresu, posted 01-31-2007 3:25 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 193 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 3:59 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 198 by Michael, posted 01-31-2007 6:52 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 14910
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 191 of 343 (381545)
01-31-2007 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 189 by Malachi-II
01-31-2007 5:41 AM


Malachi-II writes:

The 'problem' is with people who cannot, or do wish, to recognize that nit-picking is intentional fault finding.

What's wrong with intentional fault-finding? This is a debate board, isn't it?

Maybe you should join one one of those Christian forums where every thread starts out, "Isn't God great?", followed by three hundred versions of "Good answer! Good answer!"

If you want to play with the big kids, get used to your faults being found. :)

Fault-finding is particularly important in this thread. If we are going to determine which god is real, we have to nitpick at their stories. The real God will be clear and consistent.


Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 189 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 5:41 AM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 5:00 PM ringo has responded

  
kuresu
Member (Idle past 372 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 192 of 343 (381508)
01-31-2007 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
01-31-2007 7:53 AM


Re: A Matter Of Belief
I again submit my resume for the job of God.

read up earlier to find the whole thing. the best advantage w/me?

you can physically test me. that makes me think I'm ahead of the other candidates so far proposed. plus, i can think, which is a lot more than gold can say for itself (which it can't--it can't speak!)


Question. Always Question.

" . . .and some nights I just pray to the god of sex and drugs and rock'n'roll"--meatloaf

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 01-31-2007 7:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 193 of 343 (381528)
01-31-2007 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by Phat
01-31-2007 7:53 AM


Re: A Matter Of Belief
PHat writes:

If we as a committee are unable to agree on which God touched us or upon whether the touch was even experienced, we shall have to disassemble and resume our daily activities with this grand question in the universal scheme of things forever unresolved.

I haven't been appointed a member of the committee, but would like to nominate the Spirit (the only word I can come up with) that 'touched' and comforted me as a boy. (I described the experience in Message 36, Philosophy of Ideas). The Spirit that spoke and removed my fear did not identify itself or place any obligation on me whatsoever. It remained anonymous but has never left my mind.

I personally believe that we all have a 'guardian spirit' who is always available when called upon (through prayer?). HOWEVER, that gentle guardian cannot, repeat cannot, interfere in any way with the 'natural' course of events (including evolution). It is not like a pushy parent. I am convinced that it is literally impossible to quantify any metaphysical notion of spiritual reality in terms that could be understood or accepted unanimously by our species.

I can trust my experience. Experience, for me, is the highest authority. Scientists like Richard Dawkins, author of "The God Delusion", atheists, religionists, pantheists, agnostics, or whoever, may cling to their views and beliefs no matter what - and they are perfectly rational and correct in doing so. Equally, so am I. Nothing I can say will change anyone's mind, but if I can be a good example to my wife and children and others in my community that is better than destructive thinking and motivation. The biggest challenge is trying to control the monster Ego that keeps trying to take over my character. Any uplifting change in anyone's life will begin from within the quiet listening to your own mind and heart.
No sermon, just speaking my simple truth.

So, ladies and gentlemen, I suggest we have milked the sacred cow dry and it has collapsed from udder exhaustion. ;)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by Phat, posted 01-31-2007 7:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by Quetzal, posted 01-31-2007 4:12 PM Malachi-II has responded

    
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 3731 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 194 of 343 (381541)
01-31-2007 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Malachi-II
01-31-2007 3:59 PM


Objection!
Honorable members of the committee, I strenuously object to the inclusion of candidate Spirit into these proceedings. The Christian God is already under consideration. Just because He/She/It claims to be a Triune deity doesn't allow multiple submissions or candidacies. If we permit this, I submit we must allow the Hindu Trinity to also be represented by multiple candidacies.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Malachi-II, posted 01-31-2007 3:59 PM Malachi-II has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Phat, posted 01-31-2007 7:14 PM Quetzal has not yet responded
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Malachi-II
Member (Idle past 4102 days)
Posts: 139
From: Sussex, England
Joined: 04-10-2006


Message 195 of 343 (381561)
01-31-2007 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by ringo
01-31-2007 4:23 PM


If you want to play with the big kids, get used to your faults being found.

You're talking through your hat! I have admitted many personal faults without them being pointed out. I haven't read all your 3041 pearls of wisdom but suspect you haven't revealed one small thing about your True self. We know your imperfect and doubt if it will ruin your self-image to admit it to yourself. I trust men with the courage to reveal their strengths and weaknesses.

Fault-finding is particularly important in this thread.

Bull shit! Fault finding undermines people's confience. It is a cruel and dangerous practice by those who are themselves insecure.

If we are going to determine which god is real, we have to nitpick at their stories. The real God will be clear and consistent.

Your reasoning sounds mentally unbalanced. Who the hell are you, or we, to determine which God is real? Some of the most terrible human judgements have resulted from pig ignorance, bigotry, prejudice, hatred, avarice and corruption. "Nit-pick their stories?" Pathetic!!

The real God will be clear and consistent.

HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW THAT!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by ringo, posted 01-31-2007 4:23 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by AdminQuetzal, posted 01-31-2007 5:10 PM Malachi-II has responded
 Message 197 by ringo, posted 01-31-2007 5:11 PM Malachi-II has responded
 Message 200 by kuresu, posted 01-31-2007 7:27 PM Malachi-II has responded

    
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