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Author Topic:   Will The Real God Please Stand Up?
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 271 of 343 (829357)
03-06-2018 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by ringo
03-06-2018 11:58 AM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
We're trying the suspects that we already have. I don't need to provide my own private suspect.
I'm going with jars argument that even if GOD exists, humans basically create their own God. Thus, before you can dismiss one, you have to create/define them.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 11:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 03-06-2018 12:09 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 276 by NoNukes, posted 03-07-2018 1:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15630
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 272 of 343 (829359)
03-06-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
03-06-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
Phat writes:

I'm going with jars argument that even if GOD exists, humans basically create their own God. Thus, before you can dismiss one, you have to create/define them.


That's a copout. In this topic we're dealing with gods that have already been created, defined, described, etc. If all of them are found not guilty of being God, we can go out and look for more suspects.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 12:01 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 273 of 343 (829360)
03-06-2018 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
03-06-2018 11:40 AM


Re: Just So
Phat writes:

What statement are you referring to?

The Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy.

It begins by stating it is based on the fact that the unknown is true and so what is known must be true.

Say what?

But even then it couches it's assertions in more weasel words and word salad to make any actual meaning impossible to find. Just yet more dishonesty from the apologetics.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 11:40 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 274 of 343 (829434)
03-07-2018 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 253 by Phat
03-05-2018 4:24 PM


The Tower Of Google
1 In the year 2018, the whole earth was of one internet, and of one United Nations.

2 And it came to pass, as nation states arose from the east, that they found a plane in the land of the Amerikites; and they seized it and flew it into the mighty tall towers of Manhatten.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make trouble for the Amerikites, for they are mighty and are hindering the progress of our own Nations. Let us fly into their five sided military headquarters and bring down the mighty financial towers that their economy might collapse and allow our people to gain their fair share of the worlds wealth.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build our own tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the Lord came down to see how the people of the world responded to the attacks of their brethren from across the sea.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people of the west are united and angry., and they have all the dreadful weapons and financial means to repair their towers; and if they begin to make war, their economy shall overshadow the rest of my people on the planet and nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined doing.

7 Go to, send angels to disrupt the internet and the financial system, and cause them to suspect one another, that they may not understand one another's speech. And the Lord also allowed satan to spread mistrust and competitive envy among the people.

8 In these days, the people had no fear of the Lord, and many thought that He was imagined by others and did not actually exist. They had faith instead in their science and their human creative potential, and they ignored worshipping anything except their children to whom much was promised, and their money which they counted and stashed aside.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Google; because the Lord did there confound the information of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Phat, posted 03-05-2018 4:24 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by NoNukes, posted 03-07-2018 12:55 PM Phat has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 275 of 343 (829440)
03-07-2018 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Phat
03-07-2018 5:16 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
1 In the year 2018, the whole earth was of one internet, and of one United Nations.
2 And it came to pass, as nation states arose from the east, that they found a plane in the land of the Amerikites; and they seized it and flew it into the mighty tall towers of Manhatten.

Are you making a prediction, or are your dates just way off?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Phat, posted 03-07-2018 5:16 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 03-07-2018 5:03 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 276 of 343 (829441)
03-07-2018 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 271 by Phat
03-06-2018 12:01 PM


Re: Committee Still In Session Eleven Years Later
I'm going with jars argument that even if GOD exists, humans basically create their own God. Thus, before you can dismiss one, you have to create/define them.

Lol! Okay, points for the most imaginative argument in this thread.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by Phat, posted 03-06-2018 12:01 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 277 of 343 (829458)
03-07-2018 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by NoNukes
03-07-2018 12:55 PM


Re: The Tower Of Google
oh yeah. My dates are off! Im trying to describe how the Bible would be written in the modern era...but I included 2001 as analogous to 2018!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by NoNukes, posted 03-07-2018 12:55 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 10:53 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15630
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 278 of 343 (829502)
03-08-2018 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
03-07-2018 5:03 PM


Re: The Tower Of Google
Phat writes:

Im trying to describe how the Bible would be written in the modern era...


And you're doing the same thing that the authors of the Babel story did. You're portraying a God who's afraid of His own creation and has to make a pre-emptive strike to stop them from becoming too powerful.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 03-07-2018 5:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 03-08-2018 11:07 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 11:13 AM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 279 of 343 (829503)
03-08-2018 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by ringo
03-08-2018 10:53 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
The Genesis 11 Just So story creates a God character that confounds humans so they speak different languages and are unable to communicate. Google on the other hand tends to remove language as a barrier to communications.

If Genesis 11 was rewritten today it would show a God who creates ways for people to communicate regardless of their native language.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 10:53 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 11:11 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 280 of 343 (829504)
03-08-2018 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 279 by jar
03-08-2018 11:07 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
not sure I follow. You are describing a God character that wants us to be as one...with or without Him. The whole idea is for the people and God to be in communion as one...not for the people themselves to become one without God.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by jar, posted 03-08-2018 11:07 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by jar, posted 03-08-2018 1:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 281 of 343 (829505)
03-08-2018 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by ringo
03-08-2018 10:53 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
You're portraying a God who's afraid of His own creation and has to make a pre-emptive strike to stop them from becoming too powerful.
Not necessarily. If God is, he is quite capable of dealing with our power. He simply intervenes to protect us from ourselves...it is collective humanity (under no authority save ourselves) who threatens to become too powerful.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 10:53 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 11:34 AM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15630
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 282 of 343 (829506)
03-08-2018 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Phat
03-08-2018 11:13 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
Phat writes:

He simply intervenes to protect us from ourselves...


So again you're portraying a God who doesn't want His children to grow up. Does He need us to need Him?

Phat writes:

...it is collective humanity (under no authority save ourselves) who threatens to become too powerful.


To powerful for what?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 11:13 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 12:04 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 283 of 343 (829507)
03-08-2018 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by ringo
03-08-2018 11:34 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
Does He need us to need Him?
Nop. He wants us to seek Him. He does not want us to simply grow up and have no need of Him. Reason? Humans are imperfect. We have a destructive flaw.

Too powerful for what?
Too powerful for our own survival. Humanity without God will crash and burn.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 11:34 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 03-08-2018 12:08 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15630
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 284 of 343 (829508)
03-08-2018 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Phat
03-08-2018 12:04 PM


Re: The Tower Of Google
Phat writes:

He does not want us to simply grow up and have no need of Him. Reason? Humans are imperfect. We have a destructive flaw.


So why did He create us with a flaw?

Phat writes:

Too powerful for our own survival. Humanity without God will crash and burn.


As opposed to Him drowning all but eight of us? Our chances seem to be better on our own.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 12:04 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 285 of 343 (829510)
03-08-2018 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
03-08-2018 11:11 AM


Re: The Tower Of Google
Phat writes:

You are describing a God character that wants us to be as one...with or without Him. The whole idea is for the people and God to be in communion as one...not for the people themselves to become one without God.

You created the Tower of Google allusion; I am simply reporting reality and the fact that your caricature misrepresents any reality of the effects of a Tower of Google.

You are the one who seems to have the need for there to be some communion with some God although as always, you do not explain how that would be possible or how that has any relationship to reality.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 03-08-2018 11:11 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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