Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,865 Year: 4,122/9,624 Month: 993/974 Week: 320/286 Day: 41/40 Hour: 7/6


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   God's judgement and Determinism
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 11 of 106 (442191)
12-20-2007 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by LucyTheApe
12-20-2007 8:32 AM


Re: Confusion
Genes + environment = personality. Personality + situation = behaviour.
LucyTheApe writes:
I think they should stick to teaching Psychology.
Why do you say that? It seems a perfectly reasonable assertation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-20-2007 8:32 AM LucyTheApe has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-20-2007 11:18 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 12 of 106 (442193)
12-20-2007 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
12-20-2007 11:05 AM


Ringo writes:
I'm walking through the mall and I see a young mother with a baby in a stroller. I grab the baby and smash its head against the wall.
Or not. How is that not free will?
You could argue that all of your experiences, learning and native ability to moderate implusive behaviour dictate that you absolutely will not bash the kiddies head in.
If you think about the mountains of reasons you have not to bash the kids' head in you could conclude that you have almost no choice at all in regards to selecting or not selecting that particular behaviour.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 12-20-2007 11:05 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 12-20-2007 2:44 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 40 of 106 (442493)
12-21-2007 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by ringo
12-20-2007 2:44 PM


Ringo writes:
How do you explain the people who do choose to bash the kiddie's head in?
Well I guess I could say that the boundaries that most people have on their behaviour when confronted with the type of stimulus that could drive one to this type of violence are not in place.
When people get too angry thay can have no self control at all which argues that when we are in a high state of emotion (without the learnt control methods or even with damage to the limbic system) we are not acting by violition.
Either way you cut it your emotions alter your behviour: is it enough to limit free will? My opinion is that it is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 12-20-2007 2:44 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 12-21-2007 1:29 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 42 of 106 (442497)
12-21-2007 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by LucyTheApe
12-20-2007 11:18 PM


Re: Confusion
Not sure exactly what you are looking for with a 'dimensional analysis'. Do you want me to do the analysis or do a lit review?
Sounds like a longitudinal study but could you clarify?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by LucyTheApe, posted 12-20-2007 11:18 PM LucyTheApe has not replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 43 of 106 (442505)
12-21-2007 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by ringo
12-21-2007 1:29 PM


Ringo writes:
We're talking about yes-or-no free will.
Hm... I certainly would argue that a black or white yes or no is bogus.
Can you have a sliding scale of free will? I work sometimes with gambling addicts who seem to have no free will at all under certain conditions.
All of our actions are influenced by our thoughts/emotions/physiology and it may be that we have to draw an arbitary line where we say:
"this mode of thinking is sufficiently free or motivators/inhibtors (both external and internal) that we can call it 'free will'".
I think I have to agree with you that the number of variable is too large ever model behaviour in such a way that we could predict human behaviour to such an extent that we can assume free will is an illusion.
Does'nt half get my brain going thinking about it though

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by ringo, posted 12-21-2007 1:29 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by The Agnostic, posted 12-21-2007 6:27 PM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 46 of 106 (442651)
12-22-2007 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by The Agnostic
12-21-2007 6:27 PM


The Agnostic writes:
behaviour is free when there aren't any obvious external motivators or inhibitions.
I think it would be more accurrate to say that there will always be internal and external motivators to behaviour and there will never be a time in our lives when our behaviour is not based on something.
However, you could draw a line in the sand and say "this is the point when these motivators are so limited in effect that the exhibited behaviours could be called free will".
But you are still left with the idea that all behviour is exhibited for some reason, even if that reason in unidentifiable.
When you get down to it it's our emotions that normally dictate our behaviour: we select the behaviour based on our aversion/attraction to it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by The Agnostic, posted 12-21-2007 6:27 PM The Agnostic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by The Agnostic, posted 12-22-2007 8:56 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 48 of 106 (442698)
12-22-2007 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by The Agnostic
12-22-2007 8:56 AM


In theory yes. But practically no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by The Agnostic, posted 12-22-2007 8:56 AM The Agnostic has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by The Agnostic, posted 12-22-2007 11:23 AM Larni has replied

  
Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 56 of 106 (442724)
12-22-2007 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by The Agnostic
12-22-2007 11:23 AM


Well I've argued before that the xian gods judgement is stupid because it is able to put the theory into practical applicataion.
The xian god is supposed to be able to predicte with absolute certainty the actions of anyone at at any time under any circumstances.
It make him a bit of a bastard really, if he judges us for doing what he already knew we would do under conditions he set up.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by The Agnostic, posted 12-22-2007 11:23 AM The Agnostic has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024