God's judgement and Determinism

It seems that our conciousness, self awareness, and ability to foresee possible outcomes to our actions, removes the determinism from those actions and puts the choice into our own hands. In other words, consciousness allows for free will.

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It seems that our conciousness, self awareness, and ability to foresee possible outcomes to our actions, removes the determinism from those actions and puts the choice into our own hands. In other words, consciousness allows for free will. It seems that our conciousness, self awareness, and ability to foresee possible outcomes to our actions, removes the determinism from those actions and puts the choice into our own hands. In other words, consciousness allows for free will.

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That sounds logical, but I'm inclined to believe that the materialistic world influences consciousness, rather than the other way around. You can prove this for yourself in a small thought-experiment.Just imagine drinking 5 glasses of alcohol and how it would affect your judgement. Clearly, the physical alcohol determines your mental judgement.

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As I already said, you can think of God's judgement as a debugging process. Whether He knows what's going on in every machine cycle is irrelevant. The judgement is based on the overall performance of the program. If it doesn't produce good results, it gets deleted.

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I find that an interesting thought. It would in a sense allow for God to be able to have a ground for judging people. I still wonder, though, how is it fair towards the unlucky people who are considered poorly functioning programs? What have they done to deserve that predicate?

If my consciousess doesn't influence that material world, then how are those glasses of alcohol going to get drank?This doesn't mean that the materistic world has no influence, tho.You really, honestly, think that whether or not I decide to drink those 5 glasses was predetermined before I considered it?

It isn't a question of "deserving" anything. It's only about results.If somebody is incompetent at his job, for no fault of his own, does he "deserve" to be fired?
It doesn't matter.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

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You really, honestly, think that whether or not I decide to drink those 5 glasses was predetermined before I considered it?

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Yes.

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If my consciousess doesn't influence that material world, then how are those glasses of alcohol going to get drank?

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Your consciousness influences the material world in the sense that it is part of the material world. It is produced by neuron firings.Edited by The Agnostic, : Additional quote.

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If somebody is incompetent at his job, for no fault of his own, does he "deserve" to be fired?
It doesn't matter.

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I can see that point. But wouldn't it be immoral (unfair?) for God to create a universe in which certain people are predetermined to become incompetent individuals and therefore be judged?Why is one soul born in a good body, and another in a bad one?

That's where we get into cartoony ideas about "omnipotence" again. Could god create a rock so heavy He couldn't lift it? Could He create a universe so perfect He didn't need to tweak it?We have the universe we have. Why would it be immoral/unfair for God to get it running as smoothly as possible?

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

OK give me the dimensional analysis.

Well I guess I could say that the boundaries that most people have on their behaviour when confronted with the type of stimulus that could drive one to this type of violence are not in place.When people get too angry thay can have no self control at all which argues that when we are in a high state of emotion (without the learnt control methods or even with damage to the limbic system) we are not acting by violition.Either way you cut it your emotions alter your behviour: is it enough to limit free will? My opinion is that it is.

We're not talking about "limits" to free will though. We're talking about yes-or-no free will. The topic originator seems to be claiming that we have no free will because everything is governed by physics. I'm just saying that there are too many variables for "determinism" to have any real meaning. We still do have decisions that we not only can make but must make.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

Not sure exactly what you are looking for with a 'dimensional analysis'. Do you want me to do the analysis or do a lit review?Sounds like a longitudinal study but could you clarify?

Hm... I certainly would argue that a black or white yes or no is bogus.Can you have a sliding scale of free will? I work sometimes with gambling addicts who seem to have no free will at all under certain conditions.All of our actions are influenced by our thoughts/emotions/physiology and it may be that we have to draw an arbitary line where we say:"this mode of thinking is sufficiently free or motivators/inhibtors (both external and internal) that we can call it 'free will'".I think I have to agree with you that the number of variable is too large ever model behaviour in such a way that we could predict human behaviour to such an extent that we can assume free will is an illusion.Does'nt half get my brain going thinking about it though

From your language I can make up that you have a background in psychology too Anyway, what you seem to be saying is that behaviour is free when there aren't any obvious external motivators or inhibitions. But when they are not present, the behaviour apparently comes from some other place. My question for you is: Where does it come from and how does this source defy determinism?Edited by The Agnostic, : Typo

I'm curious. Are you also agnostic about Zeus, Apollo, Poseidon, etc.? What about the Buddha and other modern deities? Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!