Will I see Hitler in heaven?

There is a certain view I've run across which goes something like this: the happenings of this world are merely raw material, in themselves of no significance. What matters is the fate of individual souls. Edited by robinrohan, : typo. Add signature.

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"Your friends, if they can, may bury you with some distinction, and set up a monument, to let posterity see that your dust lies under such a stone; and when that is done, all is done. Your place is filled up by another, the world is just in the same state it was, you are blotted out of its sight, and as much forgotten by the world as if you had never belonged to it."--William Law

Well, I think this topic could launch into a "nature of evil" thread on which I'd love to spend all the time I don't have.

Or it could be that things are not as simple as they seem...If God is bound by certain constraints (perhaps of His own making) then it is not too hard to imagine scenarios where this would appear to be the end result. But then I'm off into gnostic-type heresies again.The oh-so-simple message of evangelical Christianity is not something I can accept as-is. If God's sense of justice is *eternal* punishment for those guilty of simply being born with Adam's sin, even if He has thrown us a life-line in the form of His Son, Jesus, then He can stick it. And I've told Him so... several times...But personally, I think it is much more complicated than this...

I'll make at least one post but I'm also not at all sure where the hell this thread is headed. Everyone else seems to tell me what it is I believe so I guess you can too. LOLI'm considering trying to explain just how I did get to what I currently believe, but it will be a long wandering path that will likely interest few so if I do go off on that journey I'll probably have the Queen just stick it in the Columnists Corner so it can be easily ignored.I have said I believe that all start off saved, everyone.I don't think that anyone can earn salvation through works.I do believe that GOD has charged each of us to try to do what is right and to avoid doing what is wrong.I do believe that we will be judged based on how well we do under those conditions.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I was feeling left out Actually, it was more of a question than a statement, and your answer pretty much sums it up:there is salvation: we are all saved
there is judgement: we are all judgedTwo different concepts. Is this correct?

I can live with that.I looked at the various possibilities.God chooses who will be saved.That seems to make God arbitrary and capricious, cruel and evil, since he also created all of us.We are born damned and only saved by the Grace of GOD.That too simply seems the act of a cruel God. Why create damned folk?Loving God means professing faith and worshiping God.That makes God out to be some bling-bling pimp daddy we gets bent out of shape if dissed. Somehow I just can't picture that. GOD is farther above me than I am to an ant, and I certainly don't much worry about whether or not some ant is dissin' me.Only Christians are saved.Why? See all of above.Works can earn salvation.Possible but again, IMHO unlikely. Reading the Bible I find no firm indication that that is the case, and many indications that that is not the case.I believe the moral of most of the Bible, beginning with Genesis is that we know right from wrong, and that GOD expects us to do what is right, and to try not to do what is wrong. That is a basic expectation. The reward for that is that you build a better life here for you, and for those you come in contact with, either directly or indirectly.It has little to do with earning salvation. In fact, if the goal of doing good is to earn salvation, I would imagine that GOD would discount such works since salvation is already a given.Does that make any sense?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Right, it probably is...My biggest issue is with people who believe god sends you to hell if you don't believe in him. What kind of petty jerk would do that? I, MYSELF, wouldn't do that to someone. I would like to think that any god or god(s) that did exist would be less petty that a insignificant human like myself.

ridiculous and immaterial. a wrong is a wrong. a death is a death. how many thousands of people starve to death or die of malaria or dysentery every day in the congo because of the strategic neglect of the rest of humanity?(btw. according to an interview i heard a couple months ago, the number is two or three thousand. every day.)

He was perfectly recognizable in "Little Nicky"
The last time I saw him, he was wearing a French maid's outfit and have a pineapple rammed up his ***. I knew who he was straight away. Sorry. Couldn't resist that. I'll go away now.

Surely you are not comparing that to what Hitler did.

wrong is wrong. death is death. be it hitler, diseased neglect, or a 'righteous' military. hitler supported a philosophy, however flawed. but he did not by his own hand murder the rest of europe. he did not do it alone. he did it with willing and unwilling assistance and with the assistance and support of the great powers. remember, we gave him license by not stopping him earlier. we gave him czechoslovakia, we gave him poland. we didn't stop his actions elsewhere. we stood by and watched as rumors flew out. just like we stood by and watched as neighbors killed each other in bosnia.how about our founding fathers and our great american leaders? do you expect to see them burn in hell for the american genocide perpetrated against natives? or how about the horrors perpetrated by those in control of our dear, beloved petrol? shouldn't we all be sent to hell for supporting that? or is that just inconvenient?no one is unforgivable, or god has no power or mercy whatsoever.

This analysis is historical hindsight. This is not how one understands the past.

yes, it is not how one understands history. but it is how one understands society and politics. single state actor model is bullshit and you know it. no one person is ever responsible for everything.Edited by brennakimi, : No reason given.

Yes, assigning blame is complicated, but Hitler is a special case.

Non sequitur.You have had all this exposure and don't even get a basic 2 line summation straight. The non sequitur follows inevitably. I know you don't believe it but for the sake of accuracy you might as well insert the correct position into your summary. It goes like this and is copyright freeGod created a perfect man and gave him a choice
Adam exercised the wrong choice and fell - sin enters him a as a disease
All offspring are infected with Adams self-injected and deadly disease. We sin because we are sinners
God, in loving man, provides a way for that disease to be cured
Man can reject the offer. If he doesn't reject he is cured.
There are no works involved. Man doesn't have to 'get his act together' to be savedEdited by iano, : No reason given.