One Or Two Gospels In The New Testament?

Greetings:This thread is dedicated to Debate over the differences between the ”gospel of the kingdom’ and Paul’s ”word of the cross’ gospel messages.My hypothesis is that God gathers members to the kingdom ”bride’ (John 3:29) through the first gospel described below and members to the mystery ”body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) through Paul’s Gospel #2. My conclusion is that men have been mixing the doctrinal components of these two messages together to create many false gospels that God sent to NOBODY.-----------------
No one has been saved by this gospel message for almost 2000 years. Our gospel for today is #2 below:
-----------------I. Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23 , 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12). Gospel to the Circumcised. Galatians 2:7.1. The good news that the ”kingdom of heaven’ is ”at hand’ (Matthew 3:2, 4:17, 10:7). i.e., ”preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25).
2. According to Prophecy; seen by the OT Prophets. Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1.
3. Obtain eternal life by keeping the commandments. Matt. 19:16+17.
4. Water baptism (during confession) for the ”forgiveness of sins.’ Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38. (John’s Baptism; Acts 19:3; name of the Father; John 1:6, 33, Matt. 28:19.)
5. Baptism in the ”name of the Lord Jesus’ (Acts 8:16, 19:5), ”name of the Son’ (Matthew 28:19)
6. Receive the Spirit through the baptism in the ”name of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19) through the laying of hands (Acts 8:17, 19:6).
7. Justified by ”works and not by faith alone.’ James 2:20-24.
8. Kingdom disciples are under Mosaic Law (Matthew 5:18, James 2:10).----------------
This is our “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel for today, apart from borrowing any works from Gospel #1 above.
----------------II. Paul’s “my gospel” (Romans 2:16, 16:25, etc.). Gospel to the Uncircumcised. Galatians 2:7.1. The gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24), the ”word of the cross’ (1Corinthians 1:18).
2. According to the revelation of the Mystery; NOT seen by the OT prophets. Romans 16:25.
3. Saved by God’s grace through faith APART from works. Ephesians 2:8+9.
4. Sins forgiven through the redemption IN Christ (Romans 3:24) and His shed blood (Ephesians 1:7).
5. Our ”one baptism’ (Eph. 4:5) is done by the ”one Spirit’ (Ephesians 4:4) into the ”one body’ (1Corinthians 12:13), which is into “Christ’s body” (1Corinthians 12:27).
6. We receive the Spirit when hearing (Romans 10:17) and believing (Ephesians 1:13+14) Paul’s Gospel by ”hearing with faith.’ Galatians 3:2.
7. We are justified by faith apart from works. Romans 4:4-6.
8. We are under grace and not under law. Romans 6:14.--------------Do these ”two gospel messages’ truly exist in our New Testament, or is there only ”one gospel?’GL in the Debate,In Christ,Terral

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"For the word of God is Living AND Active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

Hello, Terrel. Welcome to EvC. From the information that you provided in your post, it sounds as if you have been taught Dispensationalism. I also was taught this doctorine, and I will say that the logic behind it is sound if the Bible is an inerrent and literal work.Personally, I question my beliefs, and am unafraid to challenge the concept of Biblical Inerrency. For the purposes of this thread and of your discussion, however, lets assume that the Bible as translated is thought for thought innerrent (as opposed to word for word inerrent)In a sense, this topic can serve as a roundtable discussion among believers who have concluded that the Bible, although compiled and written by man, has been inspired by the Holy Spirit of God for the purpose of directing and intervening in human affairs so as to perfect and establish the Bride which will one day meet and unite with God through Jesus Christ.(In other topics here at EvC, we question the purpose of the Bible, the accuracy of its authorship, and the need to take it literally...but will not do so in this topic) If I am on the same page with you, I think that you are referring to the Dispensationalist theology that differentiates the Mystery Gospel from the Kingdom Gospel. Am I right?If so, lets start this topic by informing the readers why such a theology was proposed. OK so far?

Hi Phat:

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Phat >> Hello, Terral. Welcome to EvC. From the information that you provided in your post, it sounds as if you have been taught Dispensationalism. I also was taught this doctorine, and I will say that the logic behind it is sound if the Bible is an inerrant and literal work.

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I have debated every kind of Dispensationalist under the sun (christianforums.com) and can assure you they do not number me among them. People like placing ”tags’ on things, because that gives them the false impression that they also understand them. If you must prejudge and tossed me into a particular crowd, I suppose the Dispensationalists are as good as any. : 0 )

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Phat >> Personally, I question my beliefs, and am unafraid to challenge the concept of Biblical Inerrancy. For the purposes of this thread and of your discussion, however, lets assume that the Bible as translated is thought for thought inerrant (as opposed to word for word inerrant).

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My method is to read the OT from right to left thinking in Hebrew, while reading the NT from left to right thinking in Greek. The ”translations’ of men are near and far from the mark, depending on the particular verse we are examining. This topic should have been placed in the ”Bible Study’ room, IMHO.

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Phat >> In a sense, this topic can serve as a roundtable discussion among believers who have concluded that the Bible, although compiled and written by man, has been inspired by the Holy Spirit of God for the purpose of directing and intervening in human affairs so as to perfect and establish the Bride which will one day meet and unite with God through Jesus Christ.

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Your statement is riddled with half truths, as God is currently calling a ”from among the Gentiles a people for His name’ (Acts 15:14) commonly known as the “BODY of Christ” (Eph. 4:12) through Gospel #2 in this current “dispensation of God’s grace” (Eph. 3:2). The Prophetic Kingdom (Matt. 16:16-19) ”Bride’ (John 3:29) is called to God through obeying the “gospel of the kingdom,” which is Gospel #1 from the OP. The heads of the kingdom ”bride’ (James, Cephas and John = Gal. 2:9) sat on the ”opposite’ side of the table from the heads of the grace ”body’ (Paul, Barnabas and Titus) at the famous meeting in Jerusalem (Acts 15). Paul’s ”dispensation of God’s grace’ is still active in the world today, while the kingdom ”bride’ was ”cut off’ (Rev. 20:4) with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD.

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Phat >> (In other topics here at EvC, we question the purpose of the Bible, the accuracy of its authorship, and the need to take it literally...but will not do so in this topic)

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My view is that God intends for His children to interpret Scripture in one way and one way only and that is through the testimony of His ”three witnesses’ of spirit, water and blood (1John 5:6-8). We can get into what that means in another thread. : 0 )

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Terral writes >> Do these ”two gospel messages’ truly exist in our New Testament, or is there only ”one gospel?’

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Phat >> If I am on the same page with you, I think that you are referring to the Dispensationalist theology that differentiates the Mystery Gospel from the Kingdom Gospel. Am I right?

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Heh . . . No sir. I am referring to the directly opposing elementary precepts teaching ”both’ gospel messages provided in the two outlines of the Opening Post. Do you see anything about any Dispensationalism in my OP? No. In time you will see that my interpretations are MILES from anything they have invented. We can agree that many among them have accurately divided the Paul’s ”word of the cross’ (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message from the ”gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, etc.), but such similarities are common among many of the denominations. However, if I must have my work characterized with labels from a denomination, they have as many good and skilled Bible commentators as any. I consider them to be some of the most knowledgeable and talented Bible debaters on the internet, even if they have things wrongly divided in most cases.

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Phat >> If so, lets start this topic by informing the readers why such a theology was proposed. OK so far?

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Why? This is my first Opening Post on every Board, because no topic is more vital to get right than the ”doctrine of salvation.’ My experience is that most professing Christians have never seen the precepts of any gospel message laid out in outline form. Many of my critics shout “One Gospel!” at the top of their lungs, but refuse to actually pen their outline of the precepts teaching their ”one gospel’ theory. They refuse because that would attract scrutiny from other one gospel theorists who hold an even different view. Therefore, this debate is actually ”twofold’ in nature: The first is to “quote me >>” and show my ”two gospel’ outlines to be false. The second is for my adversaries to present their ”one gospel’ doctrinal outline.GL in the debate,In Christ Jesus,TerralEdited by Terral, : Modify "dispy" statement.

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"For the word of God is Living AND Active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

Do you consider yourself an online teacher? If so, you need to adapt your strategy to each board that you visit. The majority of the members at EvC Forum are not Biblical Literalists, so you won't get very far through scriptural quotes alone. The dispensationalist doctorine (I was with a mid-acts group) made sense to me if the Bible was actually Gods progressive revelation to humanity. The problem that I always had with the Dispensationalists was that they made the very doctorine of dispensationalism into a belief unto itself. Additionally, I was taught that the Bride was cut off when Israel was concluded in unbelief. (They being given a chance by God)Edited by Phat, : fixed quotesEdited by Phat, : thought I fixed it..

Hi Phat:

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Do you consider yourself an online teacher? If so, you need to adapt your strategy to each board that you visit. The majority of the members at EvC Forum are not Biblical Literalists, so you won't get very far through scriptural quotes alone.

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Do you consider yourself a spiritual antagonist? Or a Thread hijack artist? Please “quote >>” from the Opening Post and point out any errors you see and include your ”opposing views’ using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15.

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Terral writes >> Paul’s ”dispensation of God’s grace’ is still active in the world today, while the kingdom ”bride’ was ”cut off’ (Rev. 20:4) with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple in 70 AD.

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Phat Quotes >> Stam writes: Progressive Dispensationalists would propose that the Bible is an unfolding revelation of Gods will to humanity. They have argued that truth is horizontal, not vertical, i.e., that it runs on through the ages unchanged and unchangeable. Truth is horizontal, but the revelation of truth is vertical, i.e., God has revealed truth to man, not all at once, but a little at a time, historically. Noah knew more of God's revelation than Adam, Abraham than Noah, Moses than Abraham, the twelve than Moses, Paul than the twelve.

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What Stam or any other dispys believe is irrelevant to this debate.

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Phat >> The dispensationalist doctorine (I was with a mid-acts group) made sense to me if the Bible was actually Gods progressive revelation to humanity. The problem that I always had with the Dispensationalists was that they made the very doctorine of dispensationalism into a belief unto itself. Additionally, I was taught that the Bride was cut off when Israel was concluded in unbelief. (They being given a chance by God)

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Please go someplace and start a thread on what you think dispy’s believe, because I could not care less. Do you advocate the ”two gospel’ thesis of the Opening Post, OR are you an adversary with opposing views to present? Please provide us with an outline of how you teach the ”doctrine of salvation’ for the members of Christ’s body in the world today.Any future off-topic posts about dispys and whatever you think they believe will not receive a reply on this thread. I am writing on this thread for the solitary purpose of defending my two gospels thesis from the Opening Post. TY.In Christ Jesus,Terral

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"For the word of God is Living AND Active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

There is only one gospel.If Paul expressed it in a "different" way, it's because he misunderstood the gospel, or he misrepresented it, or we misunderstand him.

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Hi Ringo:

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Ringo >> There is only one gospel. If Paul expressed it in a "different" way, it's because he misunderstood the gospel, or he misrepresented it, or we misunderstand him.

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That’s it? So much for trying to convince anyone using arguments based upon Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. Please allow me to demonstrate the futility of your ”one gospel’ position. How are sins forgiven through our ”one gospel?’1. John the Baptist preaches repentance and baptism in Mark 1:4+5 like Peter in Acts 2:38. However, Paul teaches our sins are forgiven through Christ’s shed blood. Ephesians 1:7. Please pick one.2. Jesus Christ preaches the kingdom being ”at hand’ (Matt. 3:2, 4:17, 10:7) to open Mark 1, saying

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“Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:14+15.

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And yet, Jesus Christ will not die for anyone for another three years. Please explain for everyone here how Jesus is preaching ”your’ gospel of God right here in Mark 1 some three years BEFORE He dies for sins. My view is that Christ is preaching Gospel #1 from the OP, while Paul’s Gospel #2 is revealed to him (Gal. 1:11+12) AFTER the start of Acts 9.3. The Samarians (Acts 8:17) and the disciples (Acts 19:6) receive the Holy Spirit through the laying of hands. However, today we receive the Spirit by “hearing with faith.” Galatians 3:2. How do the believers in your ”one gospel’ receive the Holy Spirit?4. James teaches that members of the kingdom ”bride’ (John 3:29) described in his Epistle as “the twelve tribes dispersed abroad” (James 1:1) are justified by works and NOT by faith alone. James 2:20-24. Paul teaches that we are justified by faith apart from works (Rom. 4:4-6). How are the believers in your ”one gospel’ justified?5. Christ (Matt. 5:18) and James (James 2:10) teach that Israel will remain under Mosaic Law. However, Paul teaches that we are under grace and not under law (Romans 6:14). Are the believers in your ”one gospel’ under Mosaic Law or not?6. Paul’s gospel says that Christ died for our sins and God raised Him on the third day (1Cor. 15:3+4) and yet you claim this is the “gospel of God” in Mark 1:14+15. Please explain for everyone how Israel could accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God and King of the kingdom AND crucify Him for the forgiveness of their own sins at the very same time?!Your ”one gospel’ theory says Jesus Christ preached “Crucify Me for your salvation!,” which is not taught in Scripture anywhere. Please post your outline of precepts teaching your ”one gospel’ theory. GL in the debate,In Christ Jesus,Terral

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"For the word of God is Living AND Active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.

If Christianity is based on the teachings of Paul, rather than on the teachings of Jesus, then Christianity is a bogus human invented religion. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Compassionate conservatism - bringing you a kinder, gentler torture chamber

Well, Christianity IS a man-made religion. I doubt anyone (well,anyone that has thought about it) would disagree with that.But it does seem true that many Christians today worship Paul and the Bible (at least their particular canonic bible) instead of GOD. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The "good news" is: behave yourself and you'll be okay. Wrong tense. Sins were forgiven. It's a done deal. Finished. You're ignoring my point: Paul either misunderstood the gospel, OR he misrepresented it, OR we (you) misunderstand him. He didn't die for sins.My death is also "at hand" - hopefully more than three years hence. I, too, will not die for anybody's sins. (Although it's possible that I will die from my own sins. ) What makes you think the "Holy Spirit" is limited to "believers"? See above. Paul was wrong OR dishonest OR you misunderstand him. As Jesus said, by behaviour.And what makes you think only "believers" are justified? According to Jesus, yes. What does Jesus being the Son of God have to do with it? We're talking about the gospel here - i.e. the message, not the messenger boy. Not at all. Jesus preached, "Behave yourselves and you'll be okay."

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Jesus did slightly more than that, he showed by example that it was possible to behave yourself.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Welcome to EvC, Terral.Try this:1. Love the Lord your God
2. Love your neighbor as yourselfSufficient work for one lifetime, I'd say._

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

I thought God is not a God of confusion.Yawn.... It's all there, but we needed you to come along and untangle the nonsense. The world has been waiting for you to make it clear and simple, as God really screwed up in delivering the message the first time.Perhaps you should spend a little time with the thought that maybe the collection of writings we call the bible are written by a number of fallible men and canonized my a number of different fallible men. As men they ramble, have different opinions, different emphasis and outlooks. In other words there is no consistent objective truth contained within, no matter how hard you try.Therefore, all the high-minded grandiloquent scriptural analysis, comparison, translation and dissection is all for naught and accounts to nothing more than strutting on a stage of fools.Evidence of the point is the 1000+ Christian sects and enumerable dimestore theologians who spend countless useless hours trying to pry a consistent and clear message.If there is a clear message I will give Archer Opterix mod points and consider the rest as interesting history and literature. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

Hi Ringo:

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Ringo >> The "good news" is: behave yourself and you'll be okay.

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No Ringo. Gospel #1 is the ”gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, 24:14, Acts 8:12), which Paul calls “preaching the kingdom” (Acts 20:25). We are talking about ”gospel messages’ God sent to men for the ”forgiveness of sins’ (gospel of the kingdom = repentance and baptism = Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38 AND Paul’s “gospel of the grace of God” = Christ’s shed blood = Eph. 1:7).

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Terral’s Question >> How are sins forgiven through our ”one gospel?’

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Ringo’s Reply >> Wrong tense. Sins were forgiven. It's a done deal. Finished.

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Heh . . . ”done deal’ is no answer at all. Your only two choices are by water (Mark 1:4) or by Christ’s shed blood (Eph. 1:7). You appear to have never actually preached our gospel to anyone in your lifetime.

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Terral’s Question >> Paul teaches our sins are forgiven through Christ’s shed blood.

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Ringo’s Reply >> You're ignoring my point: Paul either misunderstood the gospel, OR he misrepresented it, OR we (you) misunderstand him.

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Heh. Funny guy. How can I ignore your point, when you are answering my questions? Please forgive, but you do not have enough knowledge on this topic to answer the most basic ”gospel’ questions. You are not pointing to Paul misunderstanding anything, but at your own. GL.In Christ Jesus,Terral

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"For the word of God is Living AND Active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.