How close are Christians to their god?

They might think that declaring themselves Christians gives them a practical advantage of some sort, and they might be right about that. So just because someone calls himself a Christian, this does not mean necessarily that he is one.

As I said, Christians too lie. But that is not a reason to doubt when someone says they are a Christian.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

sorry, i realize you're new, so you're not familiar with many of the arguments i've had here in the past. i probably should have indicated better that that was sarcasm. ...incredibly bitter sarcasm. the "no true scotsman" reference above was the hint. one of the things that annoys me to no end here are the christians who are exclusionary, often because i am the one being excluded. whether or not the faith in christ is itself valid, to exclude and condemn people is utterly reprehensible and contrary to the basic tenets of the faith. the irony is somehow lost on them, that when they exclude people from salvation, they are excluding themsleves as well. i realize that raises a number of question, but you're probably misinterpretting what i mean. i am not, in any way, a fundamentalist. i find that they like to call themselves "literalists" yet it turns out that i read the bible far more literally and at its word than they do. often, the literal reading (including context) shatters just about everything a supposed literalist has to say about the bible. i also believe the bible should be read literally to the extent that we do not have to apologize for the text when it does not match reality. i have no problem with the text being in error -- so long as we take it at it's word. when you have studied the bible enough, it becomes very, very hard to hold on to this literal and inerrant word-of-god dogma. feel free to have a look at any of the debates i've participated in recently in any of the biblical forums for some more context of what i mean by "literal."and "proper understanding of the sciences" does mean the proper, academic, mainstream understanding, including evolution, and an old earth. the qualification criterium, singular, as i understand it, is a professed belief in christ -- ie: claiming to be a christian. there is no set that claims to be christian, but does not meet the qualification of claiming to be christian. if you claim to be a christian, to me, you are. if you're lying, that's for god to sort out, not me.Edited by arachnophilia, : typo

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I don't know why you are so opposed to that. I like being exclusive.

I'm so sick of the automatic political correctness on this forum that I feel like starting a PNT on it.We mustn't be "exclusive," must we?Everybody is "exclusive"!

when the principles of your faith are "take the good news to the world" and "judge not" and your leader spoke of compassion and fellowship, and love of even your supposed enemies, yes, we must not be exclusive.if that's political correctness, blame jesus. he started it.

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What about the wailing and the gnashing of the teeth? That doesn't count?

god separates the wheat from the chaff. we do not.

You don't? I do. All the time.

as far as people go, i certainly try not to.

Lets consult Mr. Dictionary.exclusiveadj 1 : reserved for particular persons 2 : snobbishly aloof; also : stylish 3 : sole <~ rights>; also : undivided syn chic, modish, smart, swank, fashionable exclusive n exclusively adv exclusiveness n exclusivityAre you exclusive, Robin? Or are you unique?unique adj 1 : being the only one of its kind : single, sole 2 : very unusual : notable uniquely adv uniqueness nSome Christians use the exclusivity argument as a group to assert that Heaven is reserved for them.Others are not so sure of the intentions and preferences of God.

Yes, Robin. Humans prefer some people over other people, but we have no right or idea in saying who is and is not in da club, so to speak.Maybe in the end, God chooses the oats and not the wheat! The point is that it is God who does the choosing. I suppose that a wag could say that it is we who choose which God as much as it is God who chooses which "we".

arachnophilia, No probs. I have to confess that when I read it first, I assumed you must be a non-believer, despite your signature. Indeed, reading one or two of your posts in isolation may also have led me to that conclusion. However, the ”literal bible’ line suggested I should err on the side of caution and accept what I read as 'gospel'.As for the ”literal bible’ aspect, I’m not so interested in what may be seen as the inconsistencies within the texts, that has been done so many times before. It’s more to do with what can be inferred from the divine/human interface that led to the compilation of the bible. However, I’m not sure how well I could formulate such an argument, so it may never see the light of day. One of the things I’m learning very quickly on here is that lack of clarity of thought or precision of expression can be mercilessly exposed.Which is probably the main reason I am here - for the mental stimulation. It started a couple of months ago when I read a magazine article about ID. I’d heard all the arguments before, so was taken aback at some of the responses in the letters page the following month. Quite frankly, some of them bordered on being offensive. This led me onto the net, and I quickly found this site. I liked what I saw. Here is a place where it seems possible to really exercise the grey cells, such are the depth and complexity of the debates. If I can get through these first few exchanges, I think I might enjoy it on hereRather than respond to your answer on the ”qualification criteria’ issue, I’ll deal with it in a response to jar if I may, as he has also ”pulled me up’ on it and I feel it’s important to try to deal with as many direct responses as is possible. Edited by dogrelata, : No reason given.

That must be a real strain on you, trying so hard not to judge people. It's such a natural part of human behavior. For example, I think I'm right and that people who disagree with me are wrong. However, it doesn't offend me that they should be wrong.I also judge people's behavior. If I see someone do something that I think is shabby in the moral sense, I judge them for that.

Well, I'm definitely stylish, but not unique. Nobody is "unique." Yeah, that's called Christianity. If I were a Christian, I'd do that too. I don't see anything wrong with that. All these charges of arrogance for this belief could be leveled as well against any other group. For example, according to my arrogant nihilism, all those billions of people who are theists are dead wrong: they're living in a dream world. How "arrogant" of me.Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.