God caused or uncaused?

Are you saying that there is no such thing as an original thought?I see two possibilities:

God exists, and foreknew us long before we even had the ability to think, imagine, question, or create our ideas about God.

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or

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Humans made the whole idea of God up.

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Either way, there had to have been an origin. An original thought had to have come from one of the two scenarios I mention. Right?

Why must it have never existed? What if it always existed?Are you asserting as fact that anything and everything must have a beginning?If so, the beginning is our awareness. (on an individual level)You may well have existed before I was born, but as far as my perspective, you began when I became aware of you.From a scientific perspective, we can determine that the universe existed before we as humans did, but it is entirely our perception, perspective, and reasoning abilities that determine this..As far as the concept or belief in God, we can not determine anything for certain beyond our beliefs.As far as the concept of an eternal universe versus a universe with a definite beginning, we again are only scratching the surface of our understanding and/or perception.

Lets consider abstract concepts for a moment.

When did love begin to exist? Did love have a beginning? Perhaps we could say that love is but a word that describes a variety of emotional and/or biological events that humans experience.

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When did language begin to exist? Before there were words to describe concrete objects or abstract ideas, did those ideas and objects exist? Perhaps we could say that an assertion/observation can exist before a definition that adequately describes it. In other words, the universe existed long before perception of the universe occurred within human reality.

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By the same token, God can exist before humans can define/describe/perceive Him.(or Her...or It...)

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I will not argue the point that God necessarily must exist. I am only going with can for now.

sidelined writes:

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...If something never began to exist {no beginning} then we can hardly turn around and say that it does have existence now can we?

What about the universe itself? There is no indication that matter had a beginning, is there?

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Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
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“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley
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Homer Simpson: Sometimes, Marge, you just have to go with your gut!
Marge: You *always* go with your gut! How about for once you listen to your brain?

So the uncaused first cause assertion has no evidence, eh? Poor God! His creation gets all the credit for defining itself, while He gets kicked to the curb! I certainly hope He can find a job, since everything appears to have been created.And is anyone going to hire Him if He cant show any job history on His resume?I can imagine it now.....Interviewer: OK...."God" is it? You wrote here that you are the Creator of all that is seen and unseen? I'm sorry but you appear to be overqualified for the position we have open.

Rob, I enjoyed reading Psalms, although our Forum Guidelines warn against lengthy cut & pastes. A link would have been better.I am happy that you are spending time with your family, and with God as you know Him.Logic is a relative term. There was a time in history that an airplane would have been illogical, since the observations were that everything except birds was restrained by gravity. When we tried to imitate birds, we often fell on our faces.Likewise, God is logical to some, and illogical to others.Ravi Zacharias says that in response to "which came first? The chicken or the egg" the creationist would always say that the chicken came first because a Creator always precedes any form or shape of creation.The question that is often asked, Who made God is valid and expected, but the answer can never be any other creator that is less comprehensive or powerful.Humans are creators, but we cannot as yet create galaxies, much less chickens. It would logically follow that our question of who made God is silly. The uncaused first cause label would suffice nicely. Thats my opinion and 2 cents worth. Have a fun day (as opposed to fun-die) at church!

Who laid the first egg? My position in this argument has always been that
1) God exists
2) God was existing before any human had any logic to imagine God. Thus....God imagined/created (allowed us to evolve after foreknowing us) long before we became intelligent enough to make up ideas about God in order to suit our agendas and whims.
3) People are free to believe or disbelieve as they like, but are responsible for their behavior. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Perhaps the issue is whether we humans seek to safely know about God and study Him safely (so we think) from an unbiased distance.ORWhether we actually get to know God. (Don't ask me how its possible...I'm still exploring this approach myself!