|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total) |
| |
popoi | |
Total: 915,807 Year: 3,064/9,624 Month: 909/1,588 Week: 92/223 Day: 3/17 Hour: 1/0 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: God caused or uncaused? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
What of it?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
So what is science testing for if not logical coherence? Actually, understandability as opposed to logic. It doesn't matter if the correct answer is illogical as long as it is actually correct.
And are they not assuming that logical consistency (though sometimes wrong due to lack of information) is axiomatic and our only tool to shed light on reality? No, they are not making that assumption. Perhaps, at the very beginnings of science such an assumption might have been made but we have progressed beyond that point. What Science does have is a high degree of confidence that the real world is Understandable, and that position is supported as opposed to axiomatic. It is not logical that something can be both a wave and a particle, but somethings are. It is not logical that the chair we count on to support our weight is mostly nothing, but that is the fact. Much of what we learn is not logical. Many things that are logically correct are also known to be wrong and you have been given numerous examples. BUT this topic is, in case you missed it, "God caused or uncaused?" and so far, you have not addressed that question. As pointed out in Message 194 and Message 212 and Message 231, it is a silly, irrelevant and unimportant question. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
rob writes:
Whether logic really exists or not depends on one's opinion. It's a human invention to help us define consistencies within our own thought process. So logic is proven to exist, because of the physical world. We can compare the two...
Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Taz:
The laws of physics are not proven. Believing or disbelieving in gravity doesn't affect the fact that it's there. Gravity is not physical in the sense that you are thinking. It's physical in the sense that it affects everything, including light. Evidence for god please. Reality is bound to affect everything. That's why god is called Reality as per Merriam-Websters. Evidence for God? "I Am the light f the world" Your doing fine on your own...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 411 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Rob writes: You deny the laws of physics even though they are proven? They're not "proven", of course. They're just the best description we have of the physical world. The physical world would still operate the same as it does even if we didn't describe it with "laws".
So logic is proven to exist, because of the physical world. No. Logic doesn't "exist". Like the physical "laws", it's just a mental construct. It needs to be coherent with physical observations in order to have value. Which is why logic has no bearing on the topic. God is not constrained by mental constructs. “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels ------------- Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation. Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
jar writes:
I tend to see logic as a tool for us to be consistent with ourselves and not as a mean to define the physical world. To use logic to define the physical world is like trying to detect cancer with a speed radar gun. Much of what we learn is not logical. Many things that are logically correct are also known to be wrong and you have been given numerous examples. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Rob: So what is science testing for if not logical coherence? jar: Actually, understandability as opposed to logic. It doesn't matter if the correct answer is illogical as long as it is actually correct. Can things illogical be understood? Can something illogical be correct? Can jabberwocky make sense? jar: It is not logical that something can be both a wave and a particle, but somethings are. Like God being both God (spirit) and man (flesh) and the light of the world (logic)? Everything that we know is logical. We couldn't know it if it wasn't. Knowing depends upon it. Just because we cannot comprehend how the wave particle duality is solved doesn't mean that it isn't logical. I have faith that it is. 'God doesn't play dice'. Edited by Rob, : No reason given. Edited by Rob, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Taz:
I tend to see logic as a tool for us to be consistent with ourselves and not as a mean to define the physical world. To use logic to define the physical world is like trying to detect cancer with a speed radar gun. I believe that you believe that...
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Logic ie. God ie. reality ie. exists!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
mark24 Member (Idle past 5195 days) Posts: 3857 From: UK Joined: |
Rob,
Logic ie. God ie. reality ie. exists! That logic = god is a baseless assertion. That god = reality is the same. Mark There are 10 kinds of people in this world; those that understand binary, & those that don't
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Ringo:
No. Logic doesn't "exist". Like the physical "laws", it's just a mental construct So our mental constructs do not exist as non-material entities thereby proving that the non-material dimension exists?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
SurSteven Junior Member (Idle past 6058 days) Posts: 1 From: heartland of america...usa Joined: |
life seems to be finite and infinite...in a constant state of
creation and re-creation...grasping the concept of infinity has always been mind boggling for me...although, as a twelve year old, i remember telling my girlfriend of the time to imagine our universe as a drop of water coming out of someones faucet, in a universe, on a much larger scale...she thought it was cool and my friends thought I was crazy! i am inclined to favor rob's statement in his first message.......pleasure to meet everyone!.......steve ps i am not a very good student of debate, so please take iteasy on me.......smilin'
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Can things illogical be understood? Can something illogical be correct? Can jabberwocky make sense? Certainly illogical things can be understood and they can also be correct. You have been given many such examples. Can Jabberwocky makes sense? No, by definition. jar said:
It is not logical that something can be both a wave and a particle, but somethings are. to which Rob replied:
quote: Once again, irrelevant, unimportant and unsupported. Yet again you are trying to misdirect the audience so they don't see you palm the pea. The fact that something can be both a wave and a particle is based on observation. It is not logical or even reasonable with the knowledge we currently hold, but it is reality. So far though, there has been no evidence presented that God even exists. The topic though, in case you missed it, is "God caused or uncaused?" and as pointed out in Message 194, Message 212, Message 231 and Message 242 it is irrelevant, unimportant and inderterminate. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
Keep thinking SurSteven, and watch out. Because the admins will get you for not responding with the proper etiquete.
Use the reply button in the lower right hand corner of each message.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
Rob  Suspended Member (Idle past 5848 days) Posts: 2297 Joined: |
You never answered the question jar. You're railroading the thread. using up the post count.
The only one palming the pea is jar.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024