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Author | Topic: Would Evolutionists accept evidence for Creation? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
tesla Member (Idle past 1615 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
If the new model really did explain what is seen better than the current model, I would of course accept it. then is it off topic for me to propose a new model with evidence? keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
The topic title question is directed to evolutionists - It is not asking for or looking for said evidence from the creationist side. Well, I agree that the point of the topic isn't asking for evidence of a young earth. But it is asking for the hypothetical reactions of evolutionists should the earth be proven young. Now, creationists don't really understand evolutionists; they think that they have some emotional reason to believe that evolution is the best description of the history of the world. In the same vein, they tend to think that atheists need to believe in evolution. So a creationist might be surprised that to an atheist like me, the age of the world really has no bearing on my "world-view", as they like to put it. I think it's fair to allow them to ask us evolutionists questions about our attitude. (I wouldn't mind it if Cold Foreign Object weren't allowed to shit over what might be an interesting conversation, though.) He fought for the South for no reason that he could now recall, other than the same one all men fought for: because he'd been a damn fool. -- Garth Ennis
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4040 Joined: Member Rating: 8.1 |
and how many evolutionists are really searching for evidence of creation? False dilemma. Science doesn't start with the goal of proving anything at all, whether that be evolution, creation, or anything else. Scientists simply propose the model that best fits the evidence observed, and then rigorously test that model to do away with any inaccuracies. If a Creationist model was proposed that explained the observed evidence and then stood up to rigorous testing without failing, it could be considered a viable scientific theory. Accuracy is all that matters in science. Scientists in general have been searching for evidence of the Biblical myths since serious scientific inquiry began. Unfortunately for literalists, the evidence uncovered thus far has soundly contradicted several Biblical claims, like that of the Flood, and of a young Earth. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4040 Joined: Member Rating: 8.1 |
then is it off topic for me to propose a new model with evidence? I would absolutely love to hear it. But I would bet that would be best placed in a new thread, lest it completely derail this one. Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.
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tesla Member (Idle past 1615 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
Scientists in general have been searching for evidence of the Biblical myths since serious scientific inquiry began. Unfortunately for literalists, the evidence uncovered thus far has soundly contradicted several Biblical claims, like that of the Flood, and of a young Earth. i have evidence that is a biblical claim. would it be admissible for me to discuss it ? Edited by tesla, : No reason given. keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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tesla Member (Idle past 1615 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
I would absolutely love to hear it. But I would bet that would be best placed in a new thread, lest it completely derail this one. ok, would you start the thread ? keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
i have evidence that is a biblical claim. would it be admissible for me to discuss it ? Honestly if it is like the nonsense you've posted so far I doubt it would go far. BUT, let's stop for a second and look at what you have. How can something in the Bible be evidence of anything? Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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tesla Member (Idle past 1615 days) Posts: 1199 Joined: |
the evidence being a biblical claim doesn't mean it originated from the bible. it just means it "happens" to also be in the bible.
keep your mind from this way of enquiry, for never will you show that not-being is ~parmenides
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Claims are pretty worthless. Before you enter the new thread where you can present your Model, not claim, I suggest you very carefully read How can "Creationism" be supported? and understand what you will need to do. For example if you wish to introduce God or a Creator you will be expected to present that God or Creator for examination.
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Chiroptera writes: (I wouldn't mind it if Cold Foreign Object weren't allowed to shit over what might be an interesting conversation, though.) Ditto tesla. --Percy
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Crooked to what standard Member (Idle past 5868 days) Posts: 109 From: Bozeman, Montana, USA Joined: |
nwr writes: There's a general problem that both the Noah's Ark story, and the Garden of Eden story read like fables. Genesis wasn't written down first-hand. Those stories were passed down generation-to-generation for a long time (sort of like the Illiad). However, when the creation story was written out, there were two accounts, which the author of Genesis (Moses?) put side-by-side. Genesis 1 shows the order of creation. Genesis 2 shows a more personal creation in which God cares about what man thinks of the garden. The flood story is the same, except there were three accounts, and they weren't side-by-side, but shuffled together. If you'll notice, the ark seems to rise off the waters three times.
Genesis 7:7 writes: And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. Genesis 7:13 writes: In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; Genesis 7:18 writes: And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters. However, this doesn't mean that these stories are false in any way. The Iliad turned out to be quite plausible.... Iesous Christos H Theos H Uios Soter Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior.
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 3.8 |
Hi Ichthus,
Your test for plausibleness seems a little lax for my taste. You say;
quote: Hmm. Which bits of the Ilaid do you find most plausible? This bit?
Homer writes: Venus now went back into the house of Jove, while Juno darteddown from the summits of Olympus. She passed over Pieria and fair Emathia, and went on and on till she came to the snowy ranges of the Thracian horsemen, over whose topmost crests she sped without ever setting foot to ground. or this bit?
Homer writes: Thus did he pray, and Apollo heard his prayer. He came downfurious from the summits of Olympus, with his bow and his quiver upon his shoulder, and the arrows rattled on his back with the rage that trembled within him. He sat himself down away from the ships with a face as dark as night, and his silver bow rang death as he shot his arrow in the midst of them. First he smote their mules and their hounds, but presently he aimed his shafts at the people themselves, and all day long the pyres of the dead were burning. I really like this bit;
Homer writes: then Neptune and Apollo took counsel todestroy the wall, and they turned on to it the streams of all the rivers from Mount Ida into the sea, Rhesus, Heptaporus, Caresus, Rhodius, Grenicus, Aesopus, and goodly Scamander, with Simois, where many a shield and helm had fallen, and many a hero of the race of demigods had bitten the dust. Phoebus Apollo turned the mouths of all these rivers together and made them flow for nine days against the wall, while Jove rained the whole time that he might wash it sooner into the sea. Neptune himself, trident in hand, surveyed the work and threw into the sea all the foundations of beams and stones which the Achaeans had laid with so much toil; he made all level by the mighty stream of the Hellespont, and then when he had swept the wall away he spread a great beach of sand over the place where it had been. This done he turned the rivers back into their old courses. Now those are just a few passages I took from this on-line version of the Iliad. I didn't have to look very hard, because there are quite a lot of ridiculous and fantastical passages to choose from. I am aware that such passages are probably not the ones that you were thinking of. Some bits of the Iliad are indeed a great deal more plausible. The point is that the least plausible sections are the ones where supernatural deities perform miraculous feats.The same is true of the Bible. The bit where a supernatural entity floods the entire world has to count as one of the least plausible bits, however many other passages are supported by evidence. I believe that Troy was probably a real place because Schliemann found it, or at least an ancient city that could well have been Troy, using the Iliad as his guide. We have tangible evidence for its existence. It's not 100% convincing, but at least it's evidence. It is however, important to note, that evidence for the existence of Troy, even if that evidence were incontrovertible, does absolutely nothing to back up any of the fantastical stories presented above. If you can provide genuinely plausible evidence of a worldwide flood, and also explain away the wealth of geological evidence that contradicts a flood, feel free to start a thread. If your evidence is strong enough, who knows, you might rewrite the geology textbooks. Just remember; "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." - Carl Sagan Mutate and Survive
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Rahvin,
I was just reading around and found this and thought I would put my two cents worth in even though I am not an evolutionist.
Rahvin writes: Give me incontrovertible evidence of any event, Noachian Flood included, and I will believe it. I follow the evidence. According to my Bible you will never find evidence as in a layer over the face of the earth. The tenth and eleventh chapters of Genesis tells of the tower of babel. When there was one language and God confounded the language and scattered them abroad upon the face of all the earth. Then the earth was divided. Up until that time all the land mass was in one place. When the earth was divided the oceans were formed and the mountains were formed.. So no you will never see that record. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: The Bible doesn't say anything like that. The division seems to refer to the peoples dividing up after Babel. There's no mention of the land mass dividing up or of volcanoes forming. And of course we know that there were volcanoes and continental drift happening long before there were any humans on the scene. Even if your scenario did happen we'd find evidence of the Flood - it wouldn't erase everything. But we don't. And we don't find real evidence for your scenario or even the Babel story either.
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Vacate Member (Idle past 4623 days) Posts: 565 Joined: |
Then the earth was divided. Up until that time all the land mass was in one place. When the earth was divided the oceans were formed and the mountains were formed. If the movement of the landmasses erased the evidence for a global flood - why then did it not remove the evidence for the billions of years that came before? Why would mountains rising erase the flood layer from within the rocks of the mountain itself?
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