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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 16 of 82 (377597)
01-17-2007 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by ringo
01-17-2007 2:24 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Ringo writes:

Listen to the silence but don't talk to it.

And if you feel an unction that it is speaking to you, do you accept it on faith or do you go to a shrink and get medication?

I suppose that much can be gleaned from silence, but even in my quiet moments, my mind hums in the background with a myriad of thoughts, emotions, memories, and sensations. I have yet to experience total silence. (perhaps when I die.... :o )

Edited by Phat, : emoticon


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ringo
Member
Posts: 14647
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 17 of 82 (377599)
01-17-2007 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Phat
01-17-2007 4:20 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat writes:

And if you feel an unction that it is speaking to you, do you accept it on faith or do you go to a shrink and get medication?

If you feel a pain in your stomach, do you interpret it as an "unction that is speaking to you"? Do you accept it on faith or do you go to a doctor and get medication?

We happen to understand our digestive system better than we understand our psyche. Does that mean we should medicate one and put a spooky interpretation on the other?

... even in my quiet moments, my mind hums in the background with a myriad of thoughts, emotions, memories, and sensations.

If you tune out the static, the rest is silence.

(Pop quiz: whose last words are those? :) )


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 18 of 82 (377600)
01-17-2007 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Brian
01-17-2007 2:13 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Brian writes:

On topic though, isn't is such a waste of life believing in God because you feel good during meditation? A rush of chemicals and hey presto Yahweh is real!

The belief is not a waste of time, in my opinion. I believe that the relationship is real irregardless of feelings. Often, I feel nothing. Often there is no rush of chemical woo woo's as Schraff likes to call them!

Often I am having a conversation that an observer would say is with myself. It would be nice to share my friend with others...but perhaps the idea is to let my friend impart into me a nice spirit so I myself can be his representative to others and so I don't have to hit them over the head with King James!

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

The Middle Class Is Being Systematically
Wiped Out of Existence in America . . . Business Insider


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Taz
Member (Idle past 1095 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 19 of 82 (377621)
01-17-2007 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by ringo
01-17-2007 3:10 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Ringo writes:

Your point is?


Not much of a point, I guess. The whole book revolves around a young man who was raised by the parental method of silence. His father never ever talks to him directly. Whenever his father wants to tell him something, he always tells another person to relay the message even though the young man is standing right there. The "chosen" is another young man whom this young man's father thought was sent by god to fill in the whole he has created in his son's life.

Anyway, a pretty darn good book.


AKA G.A.S.B.Y.

George Absolutely Stupid Bush the Younger


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Hawkins
Member (Idle past 378 days)
Posts: 150
From: Hong Kong
Joined: 08-25-2005


Message 20 of 82 (377970)
01-19-2007 4:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
12-31-2006 12:51 PM


"Do you hear answers or feel inner confirmation in any way?"

No, I receive the answers and ask for a miracle to occur to confirm. Alternatively, I prophecise and He will make it come true.

That will happen when you are able to talk with God. And that should be what miracles and prophecies are for.

Hehe...


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 21 of 82 (380470)
01-27-2007 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Taz
01-17-2007 5:48 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Gasby writes:

The whole book revolves around a young man who was raised by the parental method of silence. His father never ever talks to him directly. Whenever his father wants to tell him something, he always tells another person to relay the message even though the young man is standing right there.

I once had a Pastor that was like that. The aura of exclusivity and power that he had made him powerful even as he was unapproachable.

Once he was caught by the press exposing his flaws, however, the aura vanished, and he was never again held in high regard.


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sidelined
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 82 (380489)
01-27-2007 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Phat
01-27-2007 12:44 PM


Re: Verification through experience
Phat

Once he was caught by the press exposing his flaws, however, the aura vanished, and he was never again held in high regard.

It is hard to hold someone in high regard after they expose themselves eh?


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 23 of 82 (422748)
09-18-2007 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by sidelined
01-27-2007 1:45 PM


Re: Verification through experience
He specifically had a parishioner who had a young child who needed insulin to live. During one stirring hyper-emotional service, he allegedly told the woman to throw all of her medications away and that her son would be healed. Needless to say, the boy died. :(

The Pastor never took responsibility for his actions, the police had no strong case, and the bewildered Mother was another victim of unscrupulous church dogma.

I found an old link in the news about the story here but I knew that the church was also responsible.


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pbee
Member (Idle past 3831 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 24 of 82 (422769)
09-18-2007 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
12-31-2006 12:51 PM


I have always believed that God somehow manifests himself through our own faith. Taking into account the big picture, where God is the root of all matter, and all of the accounts presented in the scriptures. It would make sense that as humans, we can connect with God based on our standing or conditioning with Him. In other words... if you have faith, you can /will connect with God.

The entire concept seems in no way linear or structured either since emotions can drive ones levels of faith as well. Fear, desire, love etc. They all seem to play a part in our state and capacity to connect with God. This phenomenon is synonymous of God's way, where one acts in order to achieve something.

Having said this, I rarely pray to God for nothing. It is usually something I do with a cause or purpose. I'm not criticizing others, I just don't see the sense in praying if your going to rattle off some recital and expect to accomplish anything.

Whenever I approach God, I always seek Him out. I usually meditate in a quiet environment first to get my thoughts lined up and then focus on connecting with God. One of my own methods is to empty my mind(black) and call out or reach for him in the darkness. Usually within minutes a feeling of a presence will begin to manifest itself. Once this has been established, I begin my prayer.

Sometimes, the feeling of a presence does not remain and I have to go out and seek it again. Sometimes, depending on the consistence of the feeling, I begin to accept that my topic is most likely of no interest to God. While other times, I receive an overwhelming sense of wellness or approval and conclude that my prayer and request was accepted.

Such experiences do alter my own faith and perception of God.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 25 of 82 (709147)
10-22-2013 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taz
01-17-2007 1:55 PM


Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
Taz writes:

I used to pray from a piece of paper that my parents wrote for me. I wonder if any other parent did this.

There are certain systems that are recommended for effective prayer. One of them is known by the acronym ACTS.

quote:
A.C.T.S. is an easy way to remember key elements of prayer. Its simply prayer in four parts:

Adoration Praise be to God! -Psalms 68:35
Tell God how much you appreciate Him. Express your love for Him. Praise His power and majesty. This is a great way to begin your prayer time. Sometimes I watch the sun rise, and praise God for the beauty of His creation. You should never run out of praise. How awesome are your deeds! -Psalms 66:3

Confession If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just, and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. -1 John 1:9
Tell Him where you have fallen short. Be specific. I thank Him for the forgiveness I have in Christ, and ask for help and strength to turn away from future temptations.

Thanksgiving Always glorify him with thanksgiving -Psalms 69:30
You have plenty of reasons to be thankful. Thank God for His love, His faithfulness, His patience and a million other things. Express gratitude for what Hes doing in your life. Thank Jesus for dying on the cross for you. Thank the Holy Spirit for indwelling you, and never leaving. Thank Him for being your conscience, your counselor and that still small voice.

Supplication Make your requests known to God. -Philippians 4:6
Tell God what you want, no matter how small it seems to you. Do you really think any of your requests are big to God the Creator? You should have lots of intercessory prayer here. Remember: As a Promise Keeper, you are committed to pray for your pastor and your church every day.


That all being said, I think Ringo has a point in that sometimes its better to listen. Meditation can help. For many Christians, the mind of God can't be known except through scripture...at least not the God we (think) we understand. Any other comments?


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3455
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 26 of 82 (709166)
10-22-2013 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
10-22-2013 4:19 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
One of my uncles was a Methodist minister and another was a fundamentalist preacher. Used to have some great discussions. But the one thing they both agreed on was that this laundry list nature of wants in prayer (Joan Baez syndrome) was near blasphemy.

Your "C" above says that you (the prayer giver) think god is blind or not paying attention; that he doesn't already know what you've done and why, and what you're going to do next.

Your "S" above says you think you have some power over god that you could demand from him and expect to receive. This god (supposedly) already knows your wants, your needs, what you would ask for and what you're going to get. He doesn't need any help or coaching from some lowly little worm. It's already set and there's not a damn thing you can do to change anything.

The only reason for prayer, they agreed, is to praise and thank, to show submission, which should be done several times each day. My Methodist uncle insisted on dedicated prayer with time to give sufficient praise and adoration. My fundamentalist uncle insisted that prayer could be as simple as a heart felt "Thank you" sent gods way. Of course I insisted that prayer of any kind was useless since there was nothing at the other end of the line to care.

They both forgave me my atheism though Uncle Mitch, the fundamentalist, just knew I was in the grasp of the devil and would pray to god to save my soul. He was not amused when I thanked him for adding me to his prayer laundry list.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10805
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 27 of 82 (709935)
10-31-2013 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by AZPaul3
10-22-2013 8:08 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
The only reason for prayer, they agreed, is to praise and thank, to show submission, which should be done several times each day.
Oswald Chambers(My Utmost For His Highest) said
quote:
To say that prayer changes things is not as close to the truth as saying, Prayer changes me and then I change things. God has established things so that prayer, on the basis of redemption, changes the way a person looks at things. Prayer is not a matter of changing things externally, but one of working miracles in a persons inner nature.

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5775
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 28 of 82 (709949)
10-31-2013 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
10-31-2013 7:17 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
It is amazing how much you quote and type means actually nothing. The rest is just recitation of assertions.

God has established things so that prayer, on the basis of redemption, changes the way a person looks at things. Prayer is not a matter of changing things externally, but one of working miracles in a persons inner nature.

Where does the bible say this? Why should what this preacher has to say mean anything? Seems he was good at pithy sayings. So what?

Edited by Theodoric, : qs issue


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 14647
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 29 of 82 (709989)
10-31-2013 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Theodoric
10-31-2013 9:45 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
Theodoric writes:

Seems he was good at pithy sayings.


Thum of uth like pithy thayingth. (You can't believe how long I've been saving that line.)

But I like this one:

quote:
To say that prayer changes things is not as close to the truth as saying, Prayer changes me and then I change things.

Even Noah had to build his own ark.
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Straggler
Member (Idle past 187 days)
Posts: 10198
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 30 of 82 (709990)
10-31-2013 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
10-31-2013 7:17 AM


Re: Prayer: Listening, Talking, or Both?
On this basis prayer sounds like meditation with some unnecessary theistic stuff thrown on top.
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