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Author Topic:   Conversations with God
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(5)
Message 61 of 82 (711004)
11-14-2013 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 60 by ramoss
11-13-2013 7:41 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Why do you think there is salvation, and what are we being saved for?

Because you are a bad person. You are a force of evil in the universe, unworthy of love or meaningful life. You committed the gravest sin in the cosmos. You got born. Shame.

But, Hallelujah! Give me your money and I will tell you that you are all better so you can die knowing you are not really dead.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ramoss, posted 11-13-2013 7:41 PM ramoss has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 8:57 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 82 (711117)
11-15-2013 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by AZPaul3
11-14-2013 12:04 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience...not to a human con man but to a Creator Who knows what is the better choice.

Everyone always points to how religion has been used to manipulate...an observation which confirms the base nature of humanity, by the way. Getting rid of religion wont stop human greed and lust for power.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by AZPaul3, posted 11-14-2013 12:04 AM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 11-15-2013 11:00 AM Phat has responded
 Message 64 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:34 AM Phat has responded
 Message 67 by AZPaul3, posted 11-15-2013 11:17 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15414
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


(1)
Message 63 of 82 (711153)
11-15-2013 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
11-15-2013 8:57 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience...


If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 8:57 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:56 PM ringo has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 64 of 82 (711161)
11-15-2013 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
11-15-2013 8:57 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience...not to a human con man but to a Creator Who knows what is the better choice.

That is one of the more frightening things you have ever said.

How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 8:57 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 11:45 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 82 (711164)
11-15-2013 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by jar
11-15-2013 11:34 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:

How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?

Have you ever really prayed...apart from reciting some pre written prayer?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:34 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:48 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 66 of 82 (711166)
11-15-2013 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
11-15-2013 11:45 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Constantly. I ask often "What should I do?"

But then I test the answer using logic, reason and reality.

How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 11:45 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:53 PM jar has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(2)
Message 67 of 82 (711224)
11-15-2013 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
11-15-2013 8:57 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Getting rid of religion wont stop human greed and lust for power.

No it won't. But it will get rid of about 15,000 excuses for it.

One of the most important lessons that any human can learn is humility and obedience ...

Humility is no problem. Despite my ample common looks, fetching if scraggly beard, higher than low intellect and strong borderline sexual prowess there are (hard to believe I know) weaknesses in my skills and personality. Humble I got in spades.

Obedience is another matter. One can be forced into obedience by a stick or one can comply in respect. Your god's sticks are neither long enough nor strong enough to reach me and the vile nature and evil attributes ascribed to your god in his (supposedly) own books defy any level of respect from a decent man.

So, no. No obedience.

And the one thing I do not need to be humble about is the fact that me ... mankind ... my brain is considerably more powerful than your god's nostrils; that I can, as I have done so many times before, consign any of the gods to oblivion with just a thought. Besides, my dick is way bigger than his.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 11-15-2013 8:57 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:45 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 68 of 82 (711268)
11-16-2013 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by AZPaul3
11-15-2013 11:17 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Obedience is another matter. One can be forced into obedience by a stick or one can comply in respect. Your god's sticks are neither long enough nor strong enough to reach me and the vile nature and evil attributes ascribed to your god in his (supposedly) own books defy any level of respect from a decent man.
You can't use the excuse that "my Gods" attributes and character are limited to books.

Thus, you wont get away with the simple excuse that you "disagree" with the books.

You might argue that as of today you dont have enough respect to worship or acknowledge Him. I would highly doubt that He would smite an honest man, long stick or not.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by AZPaul3, posted 11-15-2013 11:17 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by AZPaul3, posted 11-17-2013 7:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 82 (711269)
11-16-2013 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jar
11-15-2013 11:48 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:

I ask often "What should I do?"
But then I test the answer using logic, reason and reality.

How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?

Im all for questioning and testing. I don't check my brain at any door, but I also don't throw away gods and scriptures and bow at the altar of logic, reason, and reality. (Unless that logic, reason, and reality emanates from Him.) How do I know its Him? Good question, grasshopper!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 11-15-2013 11:48 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-16-2013 4:27 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 82 (711270)
11-16-2013 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by ringo
11-15-2013 11:00 AM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Ringo writes:

If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?

Hint: Its not the same guy that you "obey" when you are proud and haughty.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by ringo, posted 11-15-2013 11:00 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by ringo, posted 11-17-2013 2:07 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 71 of 82 (711272)
11-16-2013 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Phat
11-16-2013 3:53 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:53 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 11:41 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11322
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 82 (711295)
11-16-2013 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by jar
11-16-2013 4:27 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
jar writes:

How do you know that the person you are obeying really is not a human con man but a Creator Who knows what is the better choice?

This is the question of the moment, apparantly...seeing as how you keep repeating it. If one asks themselves in solitude, the short answer is that we ourselves are responsible for whom we obey---and whether we were obeying our own conscience, something that we decided was the right answer...or an inner unction(not quite an audible voice) we have to know that we are sane and are choosing the best option. Would we dare con ourselves?? (still thinking and pondering....)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by jar, posted 11-16-2013 4:27 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by jar, posted 11-17-2013 9:38 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3456
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 73 of 82 (711307)
11-17-2013 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
11-16-2013 3:45 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
You can't use the excuse that "my Gods" attributes and character are limited to books.

The only descriptions of your god's attributes, personality and history are in "his books." If the faith is to be believed those books are an autobiography written by various anonymous ghostwriters as dictated by the authorized holy spirit. The Word Of God, right? The only ones said to be straight from the man himself, right?

Are you suggesting that your personal "knowledge" of your god, and the differing knowledge of billions of others of the faithful across some 15,000+- competing creeds, is more authoritative of god's words than his own written books?

Thus, you wont get away with the simple excuse that you "disagree" with the books.

But, I don't disagree with the books. There is nothing with which to disagree. The vile nature and evil attributes ascribed to your god are right there in black and white for all the world to see and (supposedly) written by himself. His own description of himself; a violent, jealous, warmongering god with no empathy for the pain he inflicts and with a thirst for death and the shedding of human blood. And proud of it.

I would highly doubt that He would smite an honest man, long stick or not.

Um ... Job comes to mind, here. And don't give me any of this "the devil made him do it" crap. Satan did it at your god's command so say the (supposedly) authoritative words of god himself. And this he inflicted on a man he himself describes as his most devout, pious and "perfect" man. Pure unadulterated mean.

Like voodoo, those sticks only work on those who want to believe, those who think he and his reach are real.

Can't touch me.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:45 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30920
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 74 of 82 (711311)
11-17-2013 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
11-16-2013 11:41 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Would we dare con ourselves??

Of course we dare con our selves and in fact it is very common. (S)He is the perfect person for me. (S)He completes me. I know I'm saved. I know Jesus will forgive me.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 11:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15414
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 75 of 82 (711328)
11-17-2013 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
11-16-2013 3:56 PM


Re: Belief and Sanity
Phat writes:

ringo writes:

If you're humble, how do you know who to obey?

Hint: Its not the same guy that you "obey" when you are proud and haughty.

You didn't answer the question. How do you know who to obey? Is God talking to you personally, Mr. Humble? I don't see how humility and obedience go together.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 11-16-2013 3:56 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 76 by Phat, posted 11-28-2013 7:08 PM ringo has responded

  
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