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Author
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Topic: Women and Religion - Does it anger you?
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 226 of 311 (109195)
05-19-2004 1:29 AM
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Reply to: Message 217 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 12:22 AM
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I've been in numerous funddie circles and churches all these years and very few of the homes in these circles go with wifie submitting and hubby leading. Well, as far as my own personal experience went, most of the people in my church seemed to hold to your views on the NT. Moreover the submissive wife situation seems to be on a comeback, as evidenced by such books as The Excellent Wife which seemed to be pretty popular among the Christian circles I was in. Certainly my church described itself as "fundamentalist." Moreover, if it's your position that the majority of fundamentalists hold similar views on marriage to atheists, you still have to explain why the fundamentalists have higher divorce rates than atheists. I note that you have yet to even address that fact, though itd been substantiated and repeated a number of times.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 217 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 12:22 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 227 of 311 (109197)
05-19-2004 1:33 AM
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Reply to: Message 223 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 1:09 AM
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This is what angers me -- how Islam gets off treating women like animals with hardly a peep here in this EvC town. It's OT for this thread, but I'm the first to condemn how women are treated in the Islamic world. It's just that not too many Islamic men seem to visit the site, you know? On the other hand, we're hip deep in Christians like you. Everybody here condemns the fundamentalist Islam treatment of women. Nobody here supports it. Why would we talk a lot about something we all agree on? Do you think the fact that we don't spend a lot of time talking about how tasty ice cream is means that we all hate dessert?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 223 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 1:09 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 230 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 11:07 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
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NosyNed
Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: 04-04-2003
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Message 228 of 311 (109198)
05-19-2004 1:36 AM
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Reply to: Message 223 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 1:09 AM
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Red Herring
This is what angers me -- how Islam gets off treating women like animals with hardly a peep here in this EvC town. You're the one espousing a view of the male-female relationship that we think is deeply flawed. Don't start dragging a red herring across the path. If someone wants to come on and try to defend the Islamic treatment of women in some of it's worst forms there will be a heck of a lot more than a peep. You can bet on that. I know you don't think that we'd agree with any of the treatment of women as second class by any religion or law or socity. You are simply trying to distract everyone from the points at hand.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 223 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 1:09 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 229 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 11:00 AM | | NosyNed has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 229 of 311 (109246)
05-19-2004 11:00 AM
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Reply to: Message 228 by NosyNed
05-19-2004 1:36 AM
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Re: Red Herring
But Ned, the Biblical teaching on the treatment of women and that of the Quran are miles apart. Male leadership role is one thing. Teaching and practice on how that functions is quite another. The status of women in relation to God and the afterlife is quite different in the two religions also.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 228 by NosyNed, posted 05-19-2004 1:36 AM | | NosyNed has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 237 by Morte, posted 05-19-2004 6:24 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 230 of 311 (109247)
05-19-2004 11:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 227 by crashfrog
05-19-2004 1:33 AM
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CF, Silence is telling. We're also hip deep in our involvement with Islam these days and it is the fastest growing religion also in our own nation today. The women of America better take notice. The real fundamentals of Islam don't come out until the power is achieved to implement them on a nation and society. Check out the nations of the world where this control has been achieved.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 227 by crashfrog, posted 05-19-2004 1:33 AM | | crashfrog has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 235 by crashfrog, posted 05-19-2004 12:27 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member
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Message 231 of 311 (109248)
05-19-2004 11:13 AM
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Reply to: Message 219 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 12:36 AM
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quote:
Mmmm, do I say thanks here or do I consider myself admonished?
Neither. You consider yourself off-topicly punked.  "Excelsior" is what Stan Lee used to say after a long chain of alliteration.
"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?" -Holly
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 219 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 12:36 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 232 of 311 (109254)
05-19-2004 11:45 AM
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Reply to: Message 191 by nator
05-18-2004 12:58 AM
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1. The Barna conclusion was the result of polls, hardly a conclusive scientific way of gathering chart statistics. 2. Not all agree with the study, as stated in the same link.
The survey has come under some criticism: David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is." Tom Ellis of the Southern Baptist Convention suggests that the Barna poll is inaccurate because the people contacted may have called themselves born-again Christians, without having previously made a real commitment to God. He said: "We believe that there is something more to being a Christian...Just saying you are Christian is not going to guarantee that your marriage is going to stay together." 9 Some researchers have suggested that religion may have little or no effect on divorce rates. The apparently higher rate among born-again Christians, and lower rate among Atheists and Agnostics may be due to the influence of financial and/or educational factors.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 191 by nator, posted 05-18-2004 12:58 AM | | nator has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 234 by jar, posted 05-19-2004 12:22 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1530 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined: 02-19-2004
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Re: splinter sect
willowtree writes: I know you don't care a rats ass about spiritual matters-you cared about calling me a moron using N.T figures as a pretext to launch your insult.
Well I do care about spiritual matters, just not your dogmatic speculative, venomous slant on the subject. willowtree writes: God certainly thought they were morons ... Yet another moronic statement from willowtree claiming to know what God thinks. And how is it you can call the apostles morons and feel insulted if the same is applied to your statements of them? I called your statement moronic not you personally, but: "me thinks thou dost profess to much."
"One is punished most for ones virtues" Fredrick Neitzche
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 234 of 311 (109259)
05-19-2004 12:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 11:45 AM
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In the passage that you quote from Rutgers
David Popenoe, co-director of the National Marriage Project at Rutgers University has said that the survey doesn't make sense. He based this belief on his assessment that Christians follow biblical models of the family, making a bond that "the secular world doesn't have...It just stands to reason that the bond of religion is protective of marriage, and I believe it is." you have found somebody willing to state publicly that "irregardless of the facts, he will not believe them". Whoopdie-doo. What kind of support is that?
It just stands to reason The Clavanists refuge. Once again, buzz, nothing there of significance.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 11:45 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 235 of 311 (109260)
05-19-2004 12:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 230 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 11:07 AM
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Check out the nations of the world where this control has been achieved. Yeah, they're shitholes. So what's the connection to this topic? Because I don't see it. What I see is you trying to duck off the main topic with this islamic smokescreen. Me, I prefer to keep fundamentalists of every stripe out of the government.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 230 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 11:07 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1493 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 236 of 311 (109261)
05-19-2004 12:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 234 by jar
05-19-2004 12:22 PM
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you have found somebody willing to state publicly that "irregardless of the facts, he will not believe them". Not to mention the True Scotsman fallacy: "Christians can't have a higher divorce rate, because if they get divorced, they're not Christians."
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 234 by jar, posted 05-19-2004 12:22 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Morte
Member (Idle past 6129 days) Posts: 140 From: Texas Joined: 05-03-2004
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Message 237 of 311 (109313)
05-19-2004 6:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 229 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 11:00 AM
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Re: Posts 229 and 230
But the point is, we all disagree with the form of treatment you're talking about - and what's the point of debating on something everyone agrees on? As Ned said, if someone tries to defend that view, you can be sure that we'd argue against it.
quote:
Silence is telling.
Surely you don't think that all of the people who have been arguing with you for the side of equal treatment of women would suddenly change their opinion simply because it's another religion in the spotlight? We're not simply arguing against the "Christian viewpoint" because it's the Christian viewpoint, if that's what you think.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 229 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 11:00 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 238 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 7:34 PM | | Morte has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 238 of 311 (109346)
05-19-2004 7:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 237 by Morte
05-19-2004 6:24 PM
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Re: Posts 229 and 230
CF, as a reminder, the topic is "Women and Religion - does it anger you?" Do I need to debate Islam to express my anger? The topic is a question. I'm answering that question for the record. I seem to be the only one in town who cares to respond to the topic question by voicing my anger concerning the Quran, the prophet Mohammed and the way millions of women in the Islamic world are being treated. The rest of you are so intent on and busy about bashing the Bible and Christianity that you all seem to be oblivious to the plight of the millions of women on the planet who are really being maltreated. Islam is speedily advancing to the West, and this influence is sure to eventually affect Western women converts to Islam.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 237 by Morte, posted 05-19-2004 6:24 PM | | Morte has replied |
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NosyNed
Member Posts: 9003 From: Canada Joined: 04-04-2003
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Message 239 of 311 (109347)
05-19-2004 7:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 238 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 7:34 PM
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Islam and women
You are right Buz. There is a problem with the Islamists treatment of women too. I'm glad you're unhappy with it as, I'm sure, most of the rest here are. It hasn't recieved much air time here since no one is defending it. However, we do have some defending the unequal treatment of women in the Christian context so it gets more air time.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 238 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 7:34 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 240 of 311 (109350)
05-19-2004 7:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 238 by Buzsaw
05-19-2004 7:34 PM
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Re: Posts 229 and 230
Buzz, despite your feeble attempt to move the discussion away from your misguided opinion of women, there is nothing in the Koran that places women at a lower state then men. As is often the case, practice does not always follow the teachings. Do the rest of us oppose the way some people treat women. Yes, just as we oppose your ideas. edited to change you to your. This message has been edited by jar, 05-19-2004 06:59 PM
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 238 by Buzsaw, posted 05-19-2004 7:34 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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