Jar's belief statement- Part 2

You don't believe in the Fall.

You are absolutely right. The concept of a Fall is simply a copout, a way to shift blame to something outside where IMHO the blame actually lies, in individual humans and a recognition of the realities of life.Now if that is sentimental perhaps you can explain how?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ok, we won't beat this topic up to death. It was nice of you to post your belief statement. I don't agree with that either, it doesn't fit logically. we invite the devil into our lives with our own actions. But I do feel that if we sin too much, and concentrate only on that, then sin will lead our lives, and take over our lives. we become slaves of sin. This doesn't make us free from blame, as our own actions got us there. The bible says that even God will harden peoples hearts like this, and give them even less of a chance of coming around. One time a few years back, fopr some reason I was letting everything wrong in my life get to me (was having a bad day) and I was lying on the bed letting all those bad thoughts circle around in my out of control. Then the thought of suicide entered my mind (I have no idea why). Then I was given a vision of total silence, and balckness. It was, for a split second, completely peacful. I then realized that was going to be my hell, and that is what I would experience for eternity. No thoughts, no sound, no sites, absolute nothing. Scared the shit out of me. The next day my nieghbor commited suicide.A few weeks later, my other nieghbor down the block, who is Christian, mentioned that the guy who blew his brains out with a gun, had a spirit of murder. Instantly (post-hoc reasoning ) I realized that evil spirits do exist, and one had visited my head, and tried to trick me into killing myself. Of course there is no way to prove that it was an evil spirit, but there is no way to prove it wasn't either. However, the choice was solely up to me. It wasn't to personal on the day of pentacost.

The problem with religion, is that it is run by man, all too often.

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Eventually you reach a point of awareness and you will know right from wrong even if no one teaches it to you. Like murder, I could be raised thinking murder was ok, but at some point I might realize that it is not.

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So, is it murder, and therefore sin, to kill the man who rapes your daughter?Is state-sanctioned killing (capital punishment) just indirect revenge murder?

There's no explanation for human suffering in your system. You just conveniently ignore that problem.

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A few weeks later, my other nieghbor down the block, who is Christian, mentioned that the guy who blew his brains out with a gun, had a spirit of murder. Instantly (post-hoc reasoning ) I realized that evil spirits do exist, and one had visited my head, and tried to trick me into killing myself. Of course there is no way to prove that it was an evil spirit, but there is no way to prove it wasn't either. However, the choice was solely up to me.

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What a terrifying (yet exciting, I'm sure) woo-woo world of monsters and bogeymen you occupy, rat.Couldn't it be that your poor neighbor was simply clinically depressed? Had some bad chemical imbalance in the brain? Isn't that a hell of a lot more likely than a spirit of murder?I swear, to hear about grownups discussing the fairytale monsters of a 5 year old as if they are real is incredibly amusing. Disturbing and baffling, but amusing.The truly sad part about all of this is that if all of you so-called "Christian" neighbors had been paying attention to this guy and if you could have recognized the signs of clinical depression instead of ascribing his behavior to his being posessed by a "spirit", you might have been able to get him some help before it was too late.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

How can you say that with a straight face when in the very message you are replying to I provided just such an explanation?I guess some theology where the blame lies not in the individual but some fantasy Fall is not sentemental? Some theology where folk clain "it's a sinful world" is not sentemental? Some "it's not MY fault" theology is not sentemental? Some theology where "I'm saved and you aren't, nah-nah-nah" is not sentimental?Human suffering comes from two sources, natural processes which we understand better everyday, and people screwing up.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Calling it a "natural process" doesn't explain anything. God made the process, so God is responsible. Your system has no explanation for this apparent cruelty of God.

Well, that is NOT exactly what I said but still, let's examine that assumption on your part.What process is it you see as cruel? Can you give me an example?Edited by jar, : change sub-title

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There are many examples: birth defects, diseases, etc.

Let's try to get specific instead of you moving goal posts constantly. Which of those would you like to discuss?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It doesn't matter which we discuss. Any natural process that causes human suffering would need to be explained by any religion worth its salt. It's a classic problem. You can't just ignore it.

You keep saying that but when I try to get you to discuss it you just keep asserting the same tired refrain all over again.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It's up to you to explain it. It's your religion, not mine. How do you justify birth defects?