Which came first: the young earth, or the inerrant scripture?

Reply to the Question, "Which was first?"
I, and many of my acquaintance, had believed the "inerrant Scriptures" for decades before we learned of the "young earth."1) Mathematics is the most exact science known to man.
2) Evolution is only a theory.Bishop Ussher, and Barnabas had added the Bible story up to about 4000 years, in 2nd century, and 17th century.
My calculation (Gen 5.1; The Beginning of Time) is: 4148 BC.
God created a grown man and woman and an "old" earth.
hoaryhead

Evolution Contradicts the Word of God.1) Adam "was formed" first - Gen 2.7.
2) The Beast was "formed" later - Gen 2.19.
3) Adam named the beasts - Ibid.
4) For the uninformed, let it be known that "beasts" in the Bible are four-footed beasts; or else, quite frequently, symbols for 12 Tribes of Israel, and Gentile nations.
[I noticed a comment about God hating beasts and killing them; when it was nations symbolized by beasts that were destroyed.]
hoaryhead

"Mathematics is not a science," writes Chiroptera.For most of the history of the United States, it has been universally agreed that the three basic sciences are:
Reading, Riting, and Rithmatic.
This has been taught in grade school, high school, and universities.On the other hand, Evolution is the most speculative theory every devised.
Every new book on the subject increases the age of the earth by one, or more, million years. Very instable subject, indeed.
hoaryhead

1) Evolution is not about the age of the earth - one detractor.
I thought that this was to be an intelligent, scientific discussion.
Why these wild fictitious statements?
A) Had Helmhotz - 18 million years.
B) Charles Lyell - hundreds of millions of years.
C) Isaac Asimov - 4.7 billion years; pp. 106 & 109; The Universe, by Asimov.2) The Bible is false - another detractor.
No examples. Come on fellows, let's talk sense.3) The planet started out as a molten mass - another detractor.
What happened to the Big Bang Theory?
Did you grow tired of it?Please, fellows: Do a little research.
Let us present studies, and facts (whether true or allusional).4) One man denied that the "3 Rs" are science.
The university professors would not like people talking about their fields of experise in such a disrespectful manner.
This same fellow argued that Evolution is science while Mathematics is not.
Without the science of mathematics we would have no computers or Internet.5) Sciences are defined to be:
A) Observation Science.
B) Testing Sciences.
C) Logical Conclusions are a science.
But theories are only theories, and not fact.
The Bible must be read with these sciences in mind, plus --
the Holy Spirit.
"But the natural man [unsaved] does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know, because they are spiritually discerned" - 1Cor 2.14.hoaryhead

"Do you think that acting like you know anything about science will work in a place like this?"I have never in my life said anything as ignorant as, "Mathematics is not a science."If you accept this man, you should accept anyone.What is it about science that yiou do not understand?hoaryhead

1) While admiting that Isaac Asimov died in 1992; a detractor said things have changed in the last 160 years. WOW!2) Who is Isaac Isimov?
Ph.D in chemistry from Columbia University ... author of over 70 books. Mr. Asimov is generally recognized as one of this country's leading writers in science" - from dust jacket of his book, The Universe.Can you match these qualifications?What is all the harping about men not believing in diseases?
Never met a man in my life who did not believe in diseases.
You should get a new theme song.hoaryhead

Thank you, arachnophilla.Webster: mathematics; the SCIENCE of numbers and their operations, interrelations, combinations, generalizations, and abstractions and of space configurations and their structure,measurement, transformstions, and generalizations.You fellows opposing this well-documented fact have been doing what is described in the Bible as,
"foaming out your shame."But that is water under the bridge.
Let us continue our discussions in a more rational manner.hoaryhead

Reply to Brian; #93."There have been lots of scientific changes in the last 160 years.
How does this make Evolution false?"In the more exact sciences, such as, mathematics, and chemistry, and engineering; they have both "taken away" and "added to" their science.
For instance, Madame Curie won a Nobel Prize for her research in radiology (or, something similar). But I have read that she worked on a false premise. When this was discovered, they corrected the premise.Also in the Dark Ages, men had a premise in medicine for healing, which relieved much pain. [Forgive me, I have forgotten the title of the treatment.]
But when a more correct premise was confirmed, they discarded the false premise.And that is the reason that Evolution is wrong.
They don't throw anything out.
All the false premises, to the false science, are retained in tact.
This is extremism.
Every new book increases the age of the earth.
There is never an exposure of over-stating the date, and REDUCING the age of the earth.Sciences do not work like that.hoaryhead

1) Charles Knight has corrected me, in that evolution (according to him) has changed from Lamarckian view to Mandelian inheritance.But Chioptera (#98) disagrees with him, saying that, "inheritance is independent of evolution."Knight: [You think] "that because they don't fall into line with your thinking and that of your Christian godhead it must be wrong."I did not mention God's view of the subject; or my view. You were presented with the Timeline of the Bible; but not the interpretation of the Bible.
I believe evolution to be wrong.
I believe Christian and Jewish notions of the creation to be wrong.
Creation is both (1) a parable (Gen 1.1-2.4), and a literal account of creation (as in, man before beast; Gen 2.4-25).But then, only the children of the Spirit (meaning supernatural beings) can comprehend these things.I have been dealing in worldly thoughts, easily comprehended, because of the state of your minds.Brian - #100. Who are you to say that evolution has been constantly changing?
This was quoted from "The Universe" - Isaac Asimov.
I gave you the source. Why didn't you believe me?Gary - #102. What assertions have the supporters of evolution kept, even though such assertions have been proven incorrect?
A) Cause and Effect is the foundation of scientific investigation.
But evolution has no cause.
Because evolution has no cause; it has no effect.
B) The popes teaching that "the earth is flat" in the Dark Ages, also misdated the Exodus of Israel from Egypt.
Their erroneous date was in 13XX BC.
The real date was 1635 BC. See our Timeline for proof.
I was shocked to read that those boasting of the accuracy of carbon-dating had the popes' wrong date for the Exodus.RAZD - #103. Your questions have been answered before, but this is the last time that I will repeat the same answers.
A) Can you show us fossil evidence that humans lived before the dinosaurs?
Absolutely not!
But your study of fossils does not establish your position either.
So then, fossils do not settle the question.
The Bible is interpreted by history and mathematics and the Spirit of the Living God.
Isaiah wrote of the doom of Judah, which happened later in "the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar" (2Ki 25.8). See: Isa 24.1, 23:
"Behold, 'He Is' (Yahweh) makes the Earth (Israel) empty and makes her waste, distorts her surface and scatters abroad her inhabitants ... Then the Moon (Levitical Priesthood) will be disgraced and the Sun (Zedekiah) ashamed; for 'He Is' of hosts will reign."
These symbols are constant throughout the Old Testament, when referring to Israel; and the Moon was a "thousand lords" (Dan 5.1) when Belshazzar was killed (Isa 13 & 14).God had taught that this identification of symblism would be done by His servants in these words:
"It is the glory of Gods (Elohim) to conceal a thing; but the glory of kings to search out a thing" - Prov 25.2."Surely 'He Is Gods' (Yahweh, Elohim) does nothing, unless He reveals His secret to His servants the prophets" - Amos 3.7.Let me ask you, "Are you faking ignorance to avoid the debate?"
Herodotus of Greece, and other historians have dated these nations being destroyed by God.
In Junior High School, this was required learning in World History.
I thought this forum would be for high school graduates.
Why do you pretend not to know these universal facts?RADZ - #103; Date the Flood!2492 BC. See: Genesis 12, and Promise to Abram in 2065 BC; and add the genealogies back to the 600th year of Noah.RADZ - #103: "In other words does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, nor can he know, for they are spiritually discerned" - 1Cor 2.14."Therefore, since we have such hope [of resurrection], we use great boldness of speech -- unlike Moses who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what 'is passing away' [AD 57; present tense, but mistranslated]. But their minds were blinded. For until this day [AD 57] the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Anointed (Christ). But even to this day [AD 57], when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away" - 2Cor 3.12-16.Your charges are false. In the first case, I quoted Genesis 49; and you said I was forcing the issue.
In the second case, the sons of the kingdom are blessed; those outside the kingdom are "in darkness" (1Thes 5.4).I respect your superior knowledge of evolution; in like manner you should respect my superior knowledge of God, and of the word of God.hoaryhead

To: RAZD - #110.1) "I repeat, they were already history when the Bible was written thus cannot be PREdiction but are POSTdictions -- just another record of history, with the caveat thrown in that {{our}} god caused it."If I reply to this question by universal historical documentation; you will look mighty dumb.But I do not want to do that to you.Do you want the message sent privately; or, would you like to withdraw the post (this would save you great shame).Let us be friends, and begin to seek truth instead of strife.The man of strife is condemned by the Living God.Your more moderate evolution buddies do not talk in such a radical and uninformed manner.2) "another source for the flood" (paraphrased).
Tom Brokaw, anchorman for NBC News, showed a film of the shoreline of the ocean etched into the Himalayas about 10,000 feet above sea level, in about 1995.
The news media is pro-Atheism, and so, this has been suppressed, and never repeated or enlarged upon.
What is your honest opinion; could carbon-dating have dated this shoreline, and adjacent artifacts?Sent in love and hope,hoaryhead"The simple believes every word, but the prudent looks well to his going" - Prov 14.15.

Nuggin - #108You have mistaken another man's quote for mine.Thank you for the editing advice, but I do not seem to have the knack for it.I live in Illinois. Come and teach me.In love,hoaryhead

To Brian - #111"Referencing a page in a book isn't really supporting an argument, you should at least give some indication of how the author reached their opinion."NOTE: You have contrasted "author" and "opiniom" (both sg.) with "their" (pl.)The names of the evolutionists were spelled properly in my post, whose ideas had been discarded.Neither Isaac Asimov, nor myself, deemed it necessary to note that this had been concluded from reading history. This should have been obvious to one and all.I would like to get to know you, and learn of your ideas.
But your response did not contain any ideas.The Administrator had bemoaned the fact that most of the posts were off the subject.Your post did not mention the subject.Let us learn to be happy campers, and make our Administrator proud.hoaryhead

RAZD - #121To: RAZD - #110."I repeat, they were already history when the Bible was written thus cannot be PREdiction but are POSTdictions -- just another record of history, with the caveat thrown in that {{our}} god caused it."1) "The book of Daniel is found in all copies of the Septuagint. This oldest version of Hebrew Scriptures into Greek was made under Ptolemy Philadelphus, king of Egypt, about 280 BC" - Reason and Revelation, 1867, Robert Milligan; p. 152.2) "So Josephus testifies in the following brief extract: 'And when he [Alexander the Great] went up into the temple he offered sacrifice to God according to the high priest's directions ... And when the book of Daniel was shown him, wherein Daniel declared one of the Greeks would destroy the empire of the Persians [Dan 8.4-8], he supposed that himself was the person intended" - Ibid., p. 152; quoting Antiq. 11.8.5 (written AD 95).NOTE: Alexander left Judah to conquer Egypt, in 332 BC; and he returned to defeat Persia in October of 331 BC, at the battle of Gaugamela3) "By 200 AD there were Latin and Syriac translations of the New Testament, and one in Coptic (Egyptian language) within the following century" - Modern Reference Encyclopedias [and probably all others], 1967; Bible, Vol 3, p 98.4) "CANON OF SCRIPTURE ... The Hebrew Canon, which for all practical purposes was fixed before the time of Christ, was taken over by Christians as their Old Testament ..." - Ibid., Canon.5) "First, Nero has self-acknowledged Christians arrested" - Tacitus, p 365.
[Nero reigned AD 54-68.]6) "Because the Jews at Rome caused continuous disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from the city" - Suetonius, p 202.7) Revelation was written by the apostle John, and is dated by the death of Antipas; AD 66 - Wars 4.3.4/5.
"I know your [Smyrna] works, and where you dwell, where Satan's [denier] throne is [temple to Zeus]. And you hold fast to My name [4 names of God denied today], and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas [Sun darkened] was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan [Israel] dwells [Jerusalem]" - Rev 2.13.Satan is used as an epithet for Israel several times.hoaryhead

To Brian - #1231) Besides being an accomplished grammarian of the English language, I have also studied and translated several books of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures.Your excuse for mingling singular and plural nouns is not condoned in any language.2) "I seriously doubt if anything you have posted is obvious to anyone, you do appear to have very poor communication skills, but perhaps this will improve before you graduate from high school."The problem is not my writing; it is your inability to read.
You asked again, "Was Isaac Asimov a fiction writer?"
This had been answered for you -- by another poster -- but you could not comprehend the answers -- in grade school grammar.
A) Yes.
B) Quoted, "Mr. Asimov is generally recognized as one of this country's leading writers in science."Have your mother explain the meaning to you.2) "None of the church fathers (that I know of) took the Bible literally, but many of them ... believed that the earth was young."First Clement: "Let us consider, dear friends, how the Master continually points out to us the coming resurrection of which he made the Lord Iesous Anointed [Jesus Christ - only after AD 1725] the firstfruit when he raised him from the dead. [2] Let us observe, dear friends, the resurrection that regularly occurs. [3] Day and night show us the resurrection: the night falls asleep, and day arises ..." - Apostolic Fathers, 1989, Baker Books, p. 42."I come quickly" - 6 times.
"tribulation 10 days" - Rev 2.10.
"some standing here shall not taste death' - Mt 16.27-28.
"For the night is far spent, the day is at hand" - Rom 13.12.
"Behold, the Judge is standing at the door!" - Jas 5.9.Then came the Papal Dark Ages, and all these Scriptures were denied.Barnabas wrote of the "young earth."Jesus is a Teacher of Parables; however, most of the words of Jesus are to be interpreted semi-literally.
By this word, semi-literally, is meant a literal statement containing a symbol.
For instance, "Let the dead bury the dead."
The first word "dead" is a symbol for the "lost."
The second use of the word "dead" refers to the "dead" father a man wanted to bury.The church fathers continued to write semi-literal.
Our quote demonstrates this fact, where night and day are employed for death and resurrection.hoaryhead

RAZD - #124".. there were NO massive earthquakes and restructuring of the earth post flood: it was calm ..."1) Turkey's nothern plain was bordered in by shifting of the earth resulting from earthquakes. The Sakarya River cannot return to the sea. During the wet season the plain is flooded, and was formerly (during First World War) impassable. During the dry season, because the rains are salt water from the Medirerranean, salt flats form, "preparing the way for the kings of the east" (Ataturk and his troops) in AD 1922. The British and French and Greeks and Italians were driven fron Turkey.2) "A hydrogen bomb generates one-hundreth to one-tenth the energy of the largest earthquake" - Modern Reference Encyclopedia, 1967.3) The San Francisco fire is believed to have ressulted from an earthquake.4) "An earthquake also largely demolished the populus Campanian town of Pompeii" - Tacitus, p 353.This town and the surrounding environment has continued to be demolished, and the earth restructured, until the present day.
The pictures are an awesome display of God's power.This post was better RAZD.hoaryhead